1: Ginobili is actually better than Dumars. While stats don't tell the whole story, they are unbiased. Look at Dumars' stats and Ginobili's stats side by side (and make sure you note the difference in minutes). Ginobili is a higher volume scorer, while having the same efficiency and shooting ability in their primes. Ginobili is also a far better rebounder, averages twice as many steals as Dumars in far less minutes, not to mention Ginobili averages assists at a higher rate than most NBA point guards. 2. You admit I have better offense but keep knocking me on defense. One thing that bothers me about these drafts is that offense and defense are always considered pretty much equal in voting. This may sound silly, but offense is FAR more important than defense in basketball. The first thought is that they should be equal... defense is half the game, right? Wrong. A player's defensive ability has far less impact on a game than his offensive ability. There are many metrics to prove this, and it also varies by situation (a team with all offense and no defense would benefit more from a no offense all defense player than a well balanced team) and position (forward and center defense is more important that guard defense, which hardly matters). While there are NBA rankings for offense and defense, a team's offensive rank is more important than it's defensive rank. 3. My frontcourt is better. Dr. J is obviously better than Barry, but where things get complicated is Barkley/Mchale and Shaq/Olajuwon. I understand this is clutchfans and Olajuwon is therefore considered the best center, but just because his game is pretty doesn't mean he is that much better than Shaq. Yea, Shaq can't pull a beautiful dreamshake and his shooting is shot to hell. All he is is big. But he is so big that he can simply muscle to the basket and score. Its ugly. No one grows up wanting to score like Shaq, just throwing weight around until you score, but the reality is that that IS the most efficient way to score, simply muscling to the basket, and while much uglier than a dreamshake, it is more efficient. Shaq scored a much higher percent of his shots than Olajuwon. The same argument can go for Mchale and Barkley. While Mchale has the brilliant postmoves, that doesn't necessarily make him a better player.
Qaz tldr, but you're not seriously arguing that ginobili is even close to dumars on defense right (you mention steals etc). Also dumars isn't there for me to assist. That's what I have isiah for. Frankly, ginobili will take stockton's touches away as he is a primary ball handler. He'd work better as a 6th man imo.
sorry guys but i think i'll veto the trade i made earlier and since i vetoed, i get my pick back and with the pick I select Amare Stoudimire
Ginobili's defense is very underrated. Right now, sure, he's pretty awful because he's 36, but in his prime he was quite good. He plays the passing lanes very well and racks up the steals, and he's excellent at drawing charges. Remember his charge on Aaron Brooks?
Im not trying to debate with you, only because its late, i jus did it because redN asked... Its funny you say stats arent everything when comparing players and proceed to tell me to check stats... what you are saying, imo, is to chexk the stats that benefit your players... I strongly disagree, strongly, about offense being more important... defense wins championships... miami with its transition defense, dallas last year with its zone d... And look drJ is clearly better, but its not better than hakeem/mchale... hakeem is all tim blks leader for a reason, hes also alltime steals leader for centers... shaq would look a clown trying to defend the shake... barkley is a better rebounder but prolly not as good a all around player that mchale is... His frontcourt is better...
So did Barkley. And Shaq, who in his sophomore year averaged 30 points on 60% shooting, which is quite a bit more points than Olajuwon ever averaged, even though Olajuwon shot around 51% from the field in his career (still very impressive, but not nearly as impressive as the unstoppable Shaq). Face it. Olajuwon is known to be close 6'8 barefoot, and he's pretty skinny. His game revolves around finesse, which is beautiful to watch, but not as effective as an ugly power game.
