Israeli court: American protester Rachel Corrie's death her own fault

Except that I've criticized Islamic dictatorships all along. I still do. There is no excuse for treating people of different ethnicity with different rights based solely on their ethnicity.

However, that being said, I'm not sure of Islamic nations that do that. They do restrict the rights for people of different religions, but a black Muslim or Caucasian Muslim living in an Islamic nation would probably have the same rights.

Though that's kind of secondary in most Islamic nations since human rights are often a major problem all the way around.

That being said, I have no problem criticizing any nation that imposes an Apartheid system on a group of people native to that region like Israel is doing to the Palestinians.

Any person interested in justice and human rights should be critical of that.

 

So it's ok for the Israeli gov't to violate human rights because the Taliban do it too?

That's your choice if you are trying to equate Israel to the Taliban, but I think I'd hold the Israeli gov't to a higher standard personally.

 

Anybody supporting Israel in this case is a sick, twisted human being.

 

I agree with you on all of your post, except for the Native People part, but both sides have an argument for and against on that particular subject.

...and in most islamic countries, if you are not of that race or a citizen your rights are limited in what you can and can't do there...even if you have residency.

In saying that, I can't wait for the NBA season to start.

 

Correct me if I am wrong, but regardless of how out of sight she was, isnt an unintentional death still involuntary manslaughter?

 

I don't disagree that there are multiple ethnicities that are native to Israel. But one particular native ethnicity is discriminated against in Israel based upon that ethnicity. That's simple fact based on their laws.

 

That doesn't make too much sense to me. If I'm driving on the freeway, not breaking any speed limits or rules, but a girl throws herself in front of my car, does that mean I would get charged? My understanding of legality is that at the end of the day, intention is the key. If I wasn't doing anything negligent nor was I intending to hurt anyone at all, I don't get charged. Could be wrong.

 

Do we really know that there was no indications that he should stop? No one else screaming for him to stop, off to the side? Everything looked normal?

If it turns out that there were indications that something wasn't right as he was plowing forward and these indications were ignored, then maybe reparations are in order. There are, of course, political reasons for Israel to not admit such a thing and to suppress any testimony that suggests inappropriate actions were taken.

 

american eyewitness affidavit:

Still wearing her fluorescent jacket, she knelt down at least 15 meters in front of the bulldozer, and began waving her arms and shouting, just as activists had successfully done dozens of times that day.... When it got so close that it was moving the earth beneath her, she climbed onto the pile of rubble being pushed by the bulldozer.... Her head and upper torso were above the bulldozer's blade, and the bulldozer operator and co-operator could clearly see her. Despite this, the operator continued forward, which caused her to fall back, out of view of the driver. [sic] He continued forward, and she tried to scoot back, but was quickly pulled underneath the bulldozer. We ran towards him, and waved our arms and shouted; one activist with the megaphone. But the bulldozer operator continued forward, until Rachel was all the way underneath the central section of the bulldozer.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Rachel_Corrie_crushed_by_bulldozer.jpg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rachel_Corrie

 

/thread

 

Pictures to give you an idea of the size of this equipment.

As I said previously, you could have a megaphone / bullhorn and no one will here you.

The driver would either have ear protection inserted for noise reduction, or a headset for noise reduction with radio.

There are several blind spots in these earth moving equipment, all men on my worksite know that it is common sense to stay out of these blind spots and stay in the safety zone.

If she threw herself in front of the bulldozer, and knelt down as reported. Driver had little to no chance to see her, or take evasive action.

I dispute some of the statement, but that is a moot point.

Jump in front of heavy machinery, in this case purposely, then you are at fault. Case closed.

BTW:
This is what it usually looks like when you get run over by earth moving equipment...

Very graphic

Spoiler

He also jumped in front of heavy machinery (an excavator) to stop work.

Machine usually wins.

 

Shouldn't the standard always be the same and the level of "outrage" based on how far a government deviates from the standard?

Why would you let one get away with a lower standard and be more outraged at another one for doing less? Because that is exactly what you just wrote - and what you and many others do when it comes to Israel.

So - why?

Either you have moral standards, or you don't.

 

I have standards, you do not.

I condemn the Taliban. As do you. I condemn Israel when it behaves like the Taliban. You do not.

I have consistent standards. You do not. That's what morality is all about.

And that's why we know your criticism of Islam/Muslims goes far deeper than something logical and fair, and it is what makes you a xenophobe and a stain on the BBS.

Now...you will probably respond by making a masturbation joke about me and my family like you did earlier - which goes to show how morally corrupt you are.

 

If you think that Israel ever behaved like the Taliban, you are seriously delusional.

Get back to me when Israel starts beheading helpless hostages, when they behead people for listening to music, when they brutally oppress women and publicly stone and flog them and give them hundreds of lashes, when they make most of their money from drug trafficking, etc. etc.

 

ATW is guilt-ridden regarding the jews and under siege by the growing muslim population in deutschland. cut him some slack.

 

The difference is that we are subsidizing the country of Israel by billions of dollars a year for a population not much bigger than Houston.

Plus we are 100% supportive of them against the rest of the world at the UN, against those which we need their oil and have done billions if not trillions of dollars of damage to our economy by losing oil contracts, energy embargo's the use of Chinese, Russian or French companies because of our support for Israel's 7 million people.

We've given up substantial gains for the American people for Isreal so they'd better do what the hell we say and their actions better be more to our standards than those of the Taliban, or those toilet monarchs.

Much, much different.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ovadia_Yosef

Shas doesn't behead people, because Yosef is considered a "lenient" ruler of Jewish law, which of course, should be the law of the land.

Religious fundamentalists in political positions are bad for any country...and there are plenty in Israel by virtue of their numbers. If they keep having 10+ kids a family their dream of a theocratic kingdom with all the trappings of stone age belief and third world crappiness could happen will within our lifetimes. I really don't get the conservatives rant about "Sharia law" taking over the US or UK or Germany when a return to Christian or Jewish fundamentalism would be no better.

This is also probably a good place to add that the early Zionists that came to Israel wanted freedom as much from anti-semitic pogroms as they did their own religious fundamentalists back at the shtetl they were fleeing. A hundred years a go a "zionist" was generally a very left-leaning secularist. It didn't quite work out as planned

If Israel was smart it would be investing in the education of it's Arabic-speaking population. They are the second fastest growing, but unlike the haredim, at least a good number of them want a secular education and go on to universities and contribute to society.

And not to be PC, but in general, not everyone who speaks Arabic in Israel is a "Palestinian." There are Druze, Bedouin and other minorities who don't identify with Palestinian nationalism and serve in the armed forces and are still discriminated against just the same, especially when it comes to funds for infrastructure, education, and permits to build new communities. You've spent time here, ATW, so you probably know this, but many participating in this thread probably don't.

A third of the population of the Negev are Bedouin and are generally treated very poorly. They live in their tribal homeland in villages that are unrecognized by the state, and are denied access to water, sanitation and other services, and they probably see more bulldozers than Palestinians in the territories do.

But unlike the Palestinians, they are invisible to the rest of the world and don't have the same support of human rights groups and other NGOs.

Saddest thing of all? They probably have a better claim to their land than either Jews or Palestinians do by virtue of their generations of living on it...but no one really cares, since most people and the government sees them as grubby savages that traffic drugs and steal livestock.

 

If you don't know some of the things the IDF has done to the Palestinians you need to study history.

Long before the Taliban were beheading people, the IDF was doing some pretty cruel stuff that was downright horrible.

To say that Israel is above any criticism is just wrong. No country is. And your one-sided approach to how you treat Muslims is totally jinogistic and xenophobic. No way around that.

There is hate from Muslims and anti-Semitism - and these are serious issues that we all need to work toward solving. But you...what you do isn't help resolve and move towards a solution - you fan the flames and create more hate.

You sir is everything I stand against in life. I find the Taliban disgusting for their beliefs. And I find you disgusting for yours.

 

I never said that. But keep arguing against positions you built up in your head.

LOL. Ok kid. You know nothing about me. I laugh at you and your melodramatic, self-important babble.

 

Exactly, what we need to understand is that it does swing both ways. There are some extremism views and horrible acts in both a place like israel and a place like pakistan. We need to condemn them most not make some damn competition of who is the worst! There are also a lot of good people on both ends believe it or not an what you see on the news about israel does not represent an israeli, what you see on the news on pakistan believe it or not, does not represent a pakistani. that is what both sides of the ignorance in this argument believes. One seems steadfast on who is worst and that that is how people are or generally speaking and the other feels the same way on the otehr side. These two, entrenched in their views and only go deeper with each argument, are apart and the mentality of the problem and both are bigots in their own rights. Anytime when you don't have the capacity to understand individualism and think its all one in the same and think what you see in the news or govt views represent an entire population, well, you are an idiot.