How come nobody seems to care about the atrocities which are going on in that country (in the name of Islam, if you were to believe these "African Taliban" - what is the only thing these guys have in common with the Taliban and, e.g., the "religious police" in Saudi-Arabia)? There is a humanitarian crisis going on there that seems to be largely unnoticed. A militant Islamist leader whose forces have just conquered two-thirds of the West African state of Mali vows to launch holy war against the west. Omar Ould Hamaha, the military commander of Ansar Dine, or "Defenders of the Faith", which has scored a stunning victory in Mali against the failed state's armed forces, now controls a region larger than France which includes three paved runways that could be used to fly in weapons or drugs. He said: "Even if they (western forces) don't come here, when we have finished conquering France, we will come to the USA, we will come to London and conquer the whole world. The banner of Mohammed (peace be upon his head) will be raised from where the sun rises in the east to where it sets in the west." His threats will be taken seriously because Ansar Dine is closely linked to Al-Qaeda in the Mahgreb, which has kidnapped about 20 western hostages since 2008, including the British tourist Edwin Dyer, who was murdered in 2009 after the government refused to pay a ransom. The Islamists now control the cities of Timbuktu, Kidal, Tessalit and Gao where Hamaha was interviewed by a local cameraman on July 12. Local journalists and residents say the Nigerian jihadi group Boko Haram is operating in the area. Foreign fighters from Somalia, Pakistan and neighbouring African countries are making northern Mali their base. "The rest of the world should not just watch - we should be helped, unless they would like to see another Somalia or Afghanistan," said Tiebile Drame, an advisor to the interim Malian president, Diaoucunda Traore. "The situation in northern Mali is a threat to regional peace and to international security." 'Blue men' In January, after a decade of instability in northern Mali, hundreds of heavily armed Tuareg fighters - known as the "blue men" because of their sky-blue robes - arrived from Libya, where they had been recruited by Colonel Muammar Gaddafi to fight his doomed campaign for survival. They rekindled the long-standing struggle for an independent Tuareg state. Sections of the Malian army abandoned their weapons and fled while Tuareg officers switched sides. Soldiers in southern Mali mutinied, complaining that the corrupt government in Bamako, the capital, had failed to provide salaries, food and ammunition. The mutiny triggered a junior officers' coup, and the president fled into exile. The resulting power vacuum was the opportunity the Islamists had been waiting for. Two Malian jihadi groups, and the predominantly-Algerian al-Qaeda in the Mahgreb, seized the north, driving out Tuareg fighters, destroying Timbuktu's ancient shrines and imposing harsh Sharia (Islamic) rule. Hundreds of thousands have fled across the desert into neighbouring countries. "They're leaving for fear of having a hand cut off, or being whipped or stoned to death," said Deyda Mohamed, the police chief in Fassala on the Mauritanian side of the border, where he registers some 400 new arrivals a day. They trek across the desert by donkey cart, pots, pans and blankets piled high on top. Many refugees fear that foreign forces may soon start to attack the Islamists. "What I fear most is aeroplanes bombing from overhead," said Intinwilou Ag Hamadallamce, 75, as he waited for his family of 11 to be registered. Makeshift dwellings Every few days a bus takes the refugees to Mbera camp, where 100,000 Malians, mostly Tuaregs, are surviving the rainy season in "baches", makeshift dwellings of pliable sticks, covered in cloth and tarpaulins displaying the blue logo of the UN High Comissioner for Refugees. Aid workers say one-fifth of their children are malnourished and malaria is rife. In the last two weeks, militants from the Movement for Unity and Jihad in West Africa, which controls the area around Gao, stoned a couple to death for adultery in the town of Aguelhok and amputated the hand of an alleged thief in Ansongo. Women are forced to stay inside unless fully covered and accompanied by a male relative and anyone who smokes risks a whipping. "We're a democratic, sovereign, secular state," said Hauroye Toure, a political science graduate from Gao, who fled to the Malian capital in April. She and her family are now reliant on food donations. "We are in our own country and we should be free to behave as we wish. We are Muslims but they insist on spreading Sharia, and that's what's so serious." In the town of Segou, a few hours drive from Bamako, a few units of the Malian army are trying to regroup. Several years of training under the US anti-terrorism programme appear to have had little effect on their skills. "We need every support - air support, ground support, logistics support, personnel support, experienced support. We are in need today," said Lieutenant Cheickne Konate, a company commander who had been based in Timbuktu. The West African states have readied 3,000 troops, but neither they nor the United Nations Security Council can move without an invitation from an internationally recognised Malian government. But the military which, despite a facade of civilian rule, is in charge in Bamako is resisting demands that foreign troops should first stabilise the capital. "We've never said we're against the intervention of international soldiers in Mali," said Yamoussa Camara, the defence minister, "but their mission should be to help us liberate the north of the country, not to secure the institutions in Bamako." Across southern Mali, militia are forming to chase away the jihadis. On a rough earth football pitch in a Bamako shanty town, 125 young men and three women practised fireman's lifts, leapfrog and marching. They call themselves "Death Before Shame" and aim to restore national pride and succeed where the Malian army failed. Other groups include the Hunters, who combine Islam with traditional animist beliefs and tout shotguns and Boer war-era flintlock rifles. "We feel we can play either a physical role by participating in the struggle, or use our secrets and magic to destroy the enemy at a distance," said Dagaba Traore, a local Hunter leader. All the while the Islamists are consolidating their hold on the north, using weaponry seized from the Malian army and an increasing number of foreign fighters. In the absence of government or rule of law, some fear Al-Qaeda and its allies may now move south towards the capital. "With our collapsed state, collapsed army and security forces unfortunately everything is possible," said Tiebile Drame. http://www.channel4.com/news/malis-islamist-warlord-declares-war-on-the-west
ideology mass poverty inadequate resources already corrupt government lack of education unemployment raped by western imperialism They have many things in common. If you didn't insert your bigoted hateful comments, this is actually a serious topic worthy of discussion as opposed to the vast majority of the threads you start. But instead you've set out the ground work for idiotic back and forth regarding the same topic you've already discussed hundreds of times, gathering the praise of bigots like yourself, hatred of extremists on the other end, and disgust of everyone in between. It is telling that you are more concerned about the sensationalist statements about Europe which they have no hope of achieving, all the while these people have ACTUALLY executed Malians and other Africans like it's a video game. But you don't care about that. Nor do you care about the Malian people, especially since everyone knows the last government was already doing the same thing quietly under a different ideology. Everyone knows what happened in French Sudan and these people certainly haven't forgotten what their eyes have seen as French and other Western diplomats sucked any wealth out of the country, gave a cut to whichever Malian was most willing and capable of suppressing his own people and hoped that no one would notice. Pray tell why have these terrorists mentioned France, the UK and the USA specifically? Just a coincidence? The only 3 countries they know? This development is a huge blow for Mali and for Africa, and a terrible tragedy for the vast majority of moderate Muslims and Christians in the country. The "Western" powers are fully capable of defending themselves and I'm certain they will go way beyond standing back and defending themselves from a bunch of small time terrorists. Let's hope this somehow ends soon, but as history has shown us, it is unlikely given that Mali does not have any significant resources being among the poorest countries in the world.
It doesn't look like they stopped at 3 countries based on their quote. Maybe they are only educated enough to name off 3 countries, but they have aspirations much larger than that.
... or we could use reading comprehension to realize they mean conquering those places = conquering the world. Alternatively, we could acknowledge that these are their 3 imperialist masters who tossed them around like a bone just after World War 2 when the Allies were claiming territories as if they (oh snap) conquered the world. If this is not true, then it is really weird how fluently they speak French/Dutch/Spanish/Portugese in much of Africa.
Look at Mathloom, once again rationalizing Islamist terror as a reaction to "Western imperialism". Well, let's see. This was my only comment in that post: What exactly is "bigoted and hateful" about that? Answer the question, rather than showing your outrage once again - what do they have in common with the religious police in Saudi Arabia and with the Taliban? There is mass poverty in Saudi Arabia? Really? Nope - it's the ideology disguised as Islamist/Salafist "religion". It is like a worldwide cancer, causing violence and human suffering in many countries - Mali now being one of them. The only one displaying hatred in this thread is you. It's interesting how outraged you become because this topic has been brought up. It is also interesting how you see me "on one end" for bringing up the topic and "extremists on the other end". Quite ridiculous. Funny. I might care more than you, since I brought up the topic, whereas you would only bring up topics where supposedly some Muslims are persecuted. Interesting - Mathloom relativizing Islamist terror. They were "doing the same thing" before? How come there are hundreds of thousands of refugees now, but were not before? The previous government was cutting off hands for stealing and stoning couples, etc.? Nope, they were not. Your Islamist people are doing that.
Learn about Saudi Arabia: http://www.npr.org/2011/05/19/136439885/poverty-hides-amid-saudi-arabias-oil-wealth Also, Muslims will die from this more than anyone else. If I was only interested in highlighting Muslim persecution, then I would have brought this up immediately. As far as we know, all the victims thus far have been Muslims. Your bigotry was on full display when you claimed that the only thing in common between them, the Taliban and Saudi Arabia is religion when we can factually see that it is certainly not the only thing in common. In fact, if you seek out the factors I listed that they have in common, you will find that all countries with those problems have problems with religious terrorism. But you are only looking for one thing, so you will only see one thing. The only commonality which we can see is that if there are potentially Muslim criminals, you care far more than usual. Nothing is stopping you from saying "as a matter of fact, these people have far more things in common than I stated" Instead you are actually willing to continue making a fool of yourself by - Exaggerating the danger to the least likely victims of this problem. - Claiming that Islam is the only common thread. - Ignoring the role of western imperialism despite its presence in every topic you post - Acting like you give a damn for the people who are the likely victims of this madness But when you make a fool of yourself, I'm glad to engage you so that your views are on full display for everyone to see. I have already renounced these people as terrorists, I have no sympathy for them whatsoever. As always your implication that it is even necessary to state this is insulting - there is no one here who believes in the ideology of these terrorists unless you are willing to homogenously group together the ideology of regular moderate and conservative Muslims with these manic afro-arab islamist ideologues. The reason I am disgusted is that you clearly place more value in empty threats to the most armed nations in the world over and above the lives of the already-suffering Malians and surrounding African nations. If it were anything else, then the TWO threads you have started about this topic would not necessarily coincide with the empty declarations about what a bunch of terrorists with klashnikovs want to do to nuclear powers, rather they would coincide with the arbitrary murder of Malians and the ensuing refugee crisis.
And where exactly did I say this? Re-read my initial post. NOWHERE did I say any of that. You appear to be hearing voices in your head. Again, my only own comment in that post was
Seeing as though you are so concerned with bigoted and hateful comments... You never did answer my question regarding bigoted hateful comments re: http://bbs.clutchfans.net/showpost.php?p=7155095&postcount=6 Spoiler Would you regard this as bigoted & hateful speech? “Muslims are the vilest of animals…” “Show mercy to one another, but be ruthless to Muslims” “How perverse are Muslims!” “Strike off the heads of Muslims, as well as their fingertips” “Fight those Muslims who are near to you” “Muslim mischief makers should be murdered or crucified” ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I believe that the above statements are hate speech, disgusting and vile. Also I don't agree with any of them at all. In saying that would you regard the following statements in the same way.... Sura (8:55) - Surely the vilest of animals in Allah's sight are those who disbelieve Sura (48:29) - Muhammad is the messenger of Allah. And those with him are hard (ruthless) against the disbelievers and merciful among themselves Sura (9:30) - And the Jews say: Ezra is the son of Allah, and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah... Allah (Himself) fights against them. How perverse are they! Sura (8:12) - I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them Sura (9:123) - O you who believe! Fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness Sura (5:33) - The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement The first lot of staements are quotes from the Qur’an in which the word ‘Christian’, ‘Jew’ or ‘unbeliever’ has been replaced with the word ‘Muslim.’ http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Ar...Quran_Hate.htm This is the book that is being taught in mosques and Islamic schools. Would you want this type of literature taught in our schools to our children? Care to answer it now? This is the classic lefty 'attack the messenger to discredit the message'. And you know this how? Have you taken a poll? Have you discussed this with everyone on this board. How do you know that he hasn't gathered the approval and praise from everyone in between? Are you concerned about Mali? If you are, let's look at the heart of the problem. Why are they executing Malians? What are they willing to achieve? What is their stated goal? What law and religion are they looking to impose on this country, especially the south? No they weren't. (Al taqiyya? Or just a blatant exaggeration? 1. Totally off topic. 2. Does this give them justification for what they are doing? 3. Why was this paragraph regarding a colony that ceased to exist after 1960 inserted into the discussion? How old are the people who haven't forgotten? 50? 60? 70? This is a bigoted and hurtful statement. Are you inferring that Africans are uneducated? Here is a link regarding the standard of education in Mali in particular. http://www.worldtrek.org/odyssey/teachers/malistandards.html Fair enough that schools are not 100% compulsory, but to make a blanket assumption that they only know 3 countries is absurd, and bordering on racist. This I agree with. The only bit of truth in your entire post. Well done.
Izak, I've already discussed these things with your father ATW please take these questions up with him when it's home time. Regarding your question (although I don't know how it is related to this thread), I believe either all religion (under a single topic) or no religion should be taught in schools and, if so, only by qualified and highly supervised teachers during the last year of high school. It is not worth the effort for me to point out your misunderstanding of the text since you will not believe me under any circumstances whatsoever, you should speak to a real academic Islamic scholar or maybe one of the Muslims on the board.
Islamist propagandist Mathloom clearly frustrated, therefore resorting to personal attacks. Are you pretending again not to be a Muslim?
So you have no choice, because it is law? I thought that there was no compulsion in religion...may I ask, what would be the punishment if you were to leave Islam for another religion, or even atheism? And don't worry about the previous post, I didn't expect you to respond or answer any of the 'difficult' questions. You never do.
It's always the same. Lying, dodging questions, spreading hate - the whole Islamist repertoire, personified by Mathloom.
That's not something to be proud about. Its not a societal norm anymore to force your religion unto others.
I'm not trying to attack you. Do you condemn Muslims using Islam to dominate regions of continents? Do you feel it is right for Muslims to brutally kill Christians in these regions because they do not agree with Muslims about religion, while at the same time trying to provide aid, support, and efforts to rebuild the regions, while Muslims are preventing their every move with brutal force, while dishing out oppression?
