You're right. I have been a Rockets season ticket holder...but I have a much deeper connection with the Astros brand, for sure, that goes back to my grandparents. Long story. But I'm a huge Rockets fan.
In my mind, that was more a Les Alexander thing. His pattern since the last title has been to take long naps while occasionally waking up to recite something about being committed to winning a title and then making the head coach pay for the ineptness of his organization. Actually, he appears to have gotten his "New Head Coach" press conference down to a science although they all appear to be identical to me by now.
Alright sorry, I'm using mediocre interchangeably with mediocrity treadmill. Talking more about team direction than team results. I can easily look at win-loss records over the years and assign a term to that season (mediocre, poor, good, etc.), but what good does that do? I see four states an organization can be in: 1.) Rebuilding 2.) Building a contender (you already have your main piece(s) and are filling in the gaps). 3.) Contending 4.) Mediocrity Treadmill (no main pieces, just adding middle of the road players) There is no way this team has been on the mediocrity treadmill for 15 years.
We've been on all those except #3. That is where the mediocrity for 15 years comes in. You expect to at least make it to the WCF. It has been a tough several years for my teams. In the NFL, at least the Titans had that one year of being SB contenders in the post McNair era.
I like the team, the kids... whatever. Don't really have any exciting players... so the broadcasts on Fox Sports is garbage and boring. But I can't support them, supporting them is like approving of the front office. Never like Drayton, don't like the new owner... hated the last GMs, I don't know too much of the current one. The team is just depressing, just talking about it can be annoying. AL next year? Another year of last place ball.
I was referring to their high draft picks that were 3 years apart. Clearly CD was terrible at drafting over this time period, but those many draft positions were not expected to breed superstars. 1995-1998 - Contending (had some combination of 4 top 50 players of all time.). Did not work out. Players didn't mesh. 1999-2000 - Kind of a tough one. Hakeem obviously on the decline. You're not going to just drop him...no team would do that to a player that has meant that much to the city/organization. But I would still say they're rebuilding. They make a trade for the #2 pick in the draft. They already think they have a high potential super-star in Francis. CD is making bad moves though. Not for marginal old players, but young players he mistakenly think will develop into big time players (Taylor, Cato) 2001 - Clearly Rebuilding (crappy record) 2002-2003 - Rebuilding quite strongly. they now have (a #1 pick and a #2 pick just 3 years apart). At this point I would say they are now going full throttle on trying to build a contender. 2004-2008 - All there eggs are in the basket on this. This is a future contending team. Nobody is saying let's start over during this period. They have the pieces...but injuries screw things up. 2009 - Arguably should have ditched Yao right here and started over. This is by no means a unanimous sentiment with Rockets fans. Most still had hoped he could come back. Hindsight...they should have started rebuilding here. 2010 - 2011 - Mediocrity Treadmill (however, no long term geezers have been signed, team remains very young and flexible going forward and can turn on the rebuilding process with a flip of the switch). Some would have us believe we would have Irving and Davis right now if we had tried to tank sooner. This is very unlikely. There is no way in hell I would say the Rockets have been on the mediocrity treadmill putting on band-aids since 1995.
Call it mediocre...call it guacamole..call it whatever you want. 2 Western Conference teams have failed to win more than one playoff series over the last 15 seasons: the Houston Rockets and the Golden State Warriors. Call that whatever you want to call it. I'd call it disappointing at the very least.
On a forum where people's arguments fly right over the head's of those arguing is pretty commonplace, this one is pretty surprising given the participants. I hear you DCKid and rep applied accordingly.
The expectations were there those years... but the results were totally mediocre. Sure, they weren't expected to beat the Mavs... but after going up 2-0 on the road, that series turned out a mediocre result. They were expected to beat the Jazz back to back years with HCA... and they didn't. Mediocre result. Then those teams had injuries (like all teams have) but they never really becamse bad enough to get a high draft pick... and at the same time were not good enough to still think about contending (ie - mediocre). I'm not saying they haven't tried... I'm saying that they need to realize that if they don't have the pieces in place to contend, they need to flat-out start over and get there. Otherwise they are spinning their wheels. They've now had two separate periods of doing so (including the current regime), with the Yao-T-mac era sandwhiched in between (that didn't work out... and produced less than expected results). Most teams have extended contending periods (Spurs, Lakers), and extended lulls followed by success (OKC, Orlando, Boston)... the Rockets have had neither the last 15 years. That's what makes this so frustrating. I'd take a "worst season ever" for the Rockets if it meant getting them a top 3 pick that they could build a team around.
There are some hilarious comments in this thread. Had the Rockets been in the east many of these years, they would have at least made the playoffs and many years would have advanced a round or two. They made made moves for star players and even "glue guys," some of which worked out, many of which didn't. -In 2001, they went 45-37, good for ninth (Seattle was 44-38 and finished one game out). UNDEFEATED against the Central division (remember that?). At the time it was a record for a non-playoff team amount of wins. Had they been in the east, it would be a six seed, which doesn't account for the fact they played EC teams only half as much as western teams. -After an injury plagued '02 season, they finished 43-39, again just short of the playoffs. They choked a bit down the stretch but again they'd have been sixth in the conference they didn't play as much (the weaker one). -After a slow start in '05, they come alive, finish 45-20 and end the year 51-31. Epic first round choke though. -After an injury plagued '06 year, they make the playoffs and choke after winning 50+ games again. Not a good showing but also note only one team in the east (DET) had a better record, and that was by one game. By being in the EC, they would have played more games against them and probably have been the 1-seed and possible Finals team. -55-27 in '08. 22-game win streak even after Yao goes down. They fight admirably in the playoffs against the Jazz and nearly rally back a la Clutch City 1994 and with a healthy Rafer Alston would have won that series. They place 4th in a stacked WC (Golden State was 10th place at 48-34). At the very least, with Yao and/or Rafer, they win a playoff round, possibly 2 since the Rockets actually matched up better with LAL than the Jazz. They would have been at least third in the east, though no match for the Celtics without Yao. -In '09, McGrady quits on the team/shuts it down with Artest brought in yet they still win 53 games and win their first round series. Injuries do them in again as Yao is lost mid-series with the Lakers, with Mutumbo, who would have been very serviceable in limited time, also lost for his career a round earlier. With the latter, they would have beat the Lakers since they pushed it to 7 without Yao and possibly would have gone to the Finals as the Nuggets weren't nearly as good as LAL. They would have finished at least 4th in the east. Then Artest is let go, Humpty Dumpty is done for good, T-Mac is traded and we go into our current cycle of mediocrity begins. A few conclusions can be drawn. First, and most obviously, the Rockets more so than any team were hurt by the rise of the Western Conference . Put Houston a few hundred miles to the east and we don't hear about how few playoff series Houston has won. Is Toronto an equal to the Rockets because they went 45-37 one year and snuck out of the first round one year while the east was at it's weakest? And that's just one example. If you inserted any Rockets team since '97 except the '98, '02, '06 teams would they have not had a shot to at least get to the conference finals the years the Nets went to the finals (2002-03)? How many 50 win--check that--how many 40 win seasons have the Clippers had since this "run of mediocrity" began? Part of the reason they passed the Rockets was because they were in position to draft such studs as Griffin. Next, the team has been snakebitten by injuries, at the wrong times and so playing the "they only have one playoff series win card" is as weak as it is when you also compare conferences over that time. '02, '06 and '10 were wrecked by injuries and we're just now recovering from having relied on two often injured stars. I know trying to count on the thought of Yao staying healthy is like counting on there not being a hurricane hitting the Gulf Coast any given year, but with a healthy Yao the Rockets win back-to-back championships in '08 and '09, period. And at least with a healthy Mutmbo, they advance another round or two in '09. The biggest thing I'll hold against them are the first round chokes in 2005 (especially that one) and '07. Other than that, given the circumstances they were dealt, they've done okay since '97. This has been an organization that has always committed to winning under Les Alexander and he's proven it by trading for/signing Drexler, Barkley, Pippen, Francis, T-Mac, Artest and at least trying hard to get Howard, Gasol and Melo not to mention getting elite coaches such as Adelman and Van Gundy. Other than Carroll Dawson making some poor moves around the turn of the century (e.g. Cato, Taylor, Moochie Norris) they've always committed to excellence, even it didn't work out in the end. Can't say the same for Astros who didn't even want to take one step back to take two forward. I'm not so much making excuses so much as blowing this idea of them being mediocre over 15 years out of the water.
And for the third paragraph, I was referring to the '03 season. Two paragraphs down refers to the '07 season.
Good post, Caltex2, but I do get a little tired of the "if we were in the Eastern Conference we would have made the playoffs" reasoning. We're not in the Eastern Conference, so this argument is totally irrelevant. It's almost like saying if Texas Tech was in FCS, they would have won the national championship last year. Maybe, but they're not...so what's the point?
In the mean time, every other western confernece team besides the GSW have had more success than us... despite playing in such a tough conference. You even mention it yourself... "--how many 40 win seasons have the Clippers had since this "run of mediocrity" began? Part of the reason they passed the Rockets was because they were in position to draft such studs as Griffin." That's EXACTLY what we are all frustrated with. I would trade every 40-50 win season the Rockets have had for the last decade... if it meant that they had secured a stud like Griffin right now for the future. What did all those wins get this team? A bunch of first round exits, and now no forseeable building blocks in the short term. Stretch that out over 15 years, and you can see the frustration. Sure, they've got some wins here and there... and sure, had injuries gone in their favor they may have had better results (like all teams have had to deal with)... but they haven't been a title contender since 1997.
The Rockets were a super team when Mcgrady & company got screwed over by the refs in that 1st round mavs series. It's unfair to say they were a first round exit there without noting that. What was that 2005?
15 years without the conference finals will do it to you. It is our longest drought in history. Heck we've never had 15 year droughts of missing the NBA Finals until a couple of years ago. This is only the 3rd time we've missed the playoffs in 3 consecutive seasons. We've missed the playoffs in 8 of the past 13 seasons. We haven't been better than the 5th seed in 15 years. It just wears on you. Hopefully a franchise player will fall in our laps or we end up with a #1 pick again.
I'm certainly capable of missing something...perhaps me and DCKid are having different conversations?
It seems that way to me, but maybe it's flying over my head. I don't think DCKid is arguing that the results haven't been mediocre, just that there are differences in how these teams both came to be mediocre. Astros didn't have bad luck (in fact, I'd argue they had mostly the opposite of that during their playoff years this decade), they had terrible management decisions that have led them to be the laughing stock of MLB. While no one thought they'd be winners this season, they've actualy regressed and put out just an embarrassing product. Now, we're all confident that will change with the new regime, but it is what it is at the moment. The Rockets, while not always making the best decisions, had years where they put contending teams in place. Even now, they haven't panicked and saddled themselves with crap contracts that leave them with no flexibility. No one looks at the Rockets and laughs at them like people do with the Astros. Say what you want about the track they should take to get back to contending status, at least they never put out a product that is vomit-inducing ala the '12 Astros.
To me, that was the best overall team they've had in the last 15 years... better than the one that won their first round series against Portland. Overall, with a T-mac at his prime, a young/healthy Yao, and role players that fit their roles perfectly (Sura, Barry, James, Wesley, Howard, Mutombo)... they were playing a level of cohesive team-basketball that this city hasn't seen since the playoff run of 95. They just didn't have enough fire power to get it done... the refs didn't screw them over completely (unless they told them to leave Jason Terry wide open for 3's for the two close home games we lost).
Insert Michael Finley jpg here. They win game 5 in Dallas if not for the refs. And probably 1 of either games 3 or 4 if Cuban hadn't have whined so much.
And what do they have to show for it? If Carlos Correa turns into a stud in 5 years, this will all be worth it. If the Rockets have the 14th pick in the draft AGAIN, that makes me vomit. Especially in the NBA... where being vomit-inducing bad can land you a #1 pick that turns it all around... I'll take a year or two of terrible results to get to a position of potential (especially since this team may have to get there eventually anyways to build something... you end up prolonging the inevitable).
