He doesn't deserve in the top ten. To me, you need to pull your own wagon to a championship to be a top ten player.
Because all of those players didn't lead every title winning team they have been on to a title, hence the Horry reference. Titles are also a team accomplishment, correct? Most of the players on that list played MANY seasons with another HOF type talent on their roster. LeBron has had that type of help, that those guys had on almost every title winning team, 2 seasons.
Um, I can only think of one player in the last 30 years to win a title while leading a team in points, boards and assists (Bird). And that guy wasn't the team's primary defender. So if leading your team in points, boards, dimes while being the primary defender isn't pulling your own wagon then please give us an example.
Gotcha, So Kobe = Not Top Ten Shaq = Not Top Ten Hakeem = Not Top Ten Tim Duncan = Not Top Ten MJ = Not top ten thank you for clarifying that.
And after 2 yeats of doing everything for Miami except clean the toilets and dj the PA system, we can lay this silly misconception to rest.
You sure are being pretty unfair to him to say that your not a hater. Name one team that has won a title and didn't have "help" even the 04 Pistons had 3-4 allstar caliber players. I get tired of people thinking Miami is the 1st "Big 3", the celtics had at least 4 HOFers when Bird was leading them to titles, MJ had 2 other HOFers, Kobe wasnt even the best player on 3 of his 5 champion teams, Magic had Kareem and Worthy (not to mention Scott, Rambis, ect...), Duncan had a top 10 C of all time next to him in his 1st one, and is part of his own "Big 3". Only hakeem in 94 did it without any other superstars, but he did have great players like Horry, Thorp, Kenny, Sam, Mario, ect... So dont give me the "he had a ton of help" argument because nobody has ever won a title without a ton of help. Just look at LeBrons career averages and that tells you he is a top 5 player of all time. It's not like we are looking at a small sample size with him anymore, the guys is going into his 10th season. If he were to retire today I would have him probably at #4 behind MJ, Magic, Bird, and tied with Kobe. I know Kobe has more rings, but he was the best player on only two of those teams. And Lebron already has 2 more MVPs than Kobe and will almost certainly get at least 2-3 more.
Magic's numbers don't really look that great compared to Chris Paul, let alone LeBron. He wasn't much of an outside shooter and that drags his productivity way down compared to guys like Paul who are volume 3-point shooters in the high 30's to 40 range.
You have to adjust for pace. Pretty much every team in the 80s was scoring over a 100 points because they went up and down the court a lot and played no defense. Pace adjusted only jordan and wilt can compare to LBJ.
Exactly. Hakeem did not win as many titles as the others because he was pretty much by himself. That's why he's in the Top 10 with only 2 rings. Soo, IF Lebron can achieve the rings that the other top 10 greats have(who had help, as Lebron does) then he is most certaintly in the top 10. But, Lebron just doesn't have a completer offensive game yet. Top 15 right now, I think he will become about 8th. But he is not top 5!!!! He is not better than MJ, Bird, Magic, Wilt, Kareem, Hakeem, Kobe, Russel, Duncan, Shaq YET. By the time he's done I think he'll stack up as... MJ Magic Wilt Kareem Bird Russel Kobe Hakeem Lebron Duncan Shaq
Yes Lebron has had help like the other. BUT, the other have 6, 5, 4, rings. Does Lebron???? NO. But, when He does, then yes he will be in the discussion with the other with more.
All, I'm saying is that Lebron is NOT top 5. He in my opinion will be about 9th. But not top 5. He is NOT better than MJ, Magic, Bird, Kareem, Wilt, Russel, Kobe, Hakeem.
It is always hard to win the first one...but after that...champions do champion-like things...Lebron is on pace to be one of the top 5 players of all time... When its all said and done... 1. MJ (even if Kobe wins again this year...is still not even close in terms of his influence in the game) 2. Magic (His combo of size, skill, and the ability to play all 5 positions...remarkable) 3. Wilt (scoring a 100...nuff said) 4. Lebron (What Lebron has accomplished so far...it is scary to think what he can do..and can the only one now that can challenge Jordan's throne) 5. Bird (the original ice man...white men can ball...) 6. Kareem (reason why he was a scoring champ...20 years of great basketball) 7. Shaq (the most physically dominant big man in his time) 8. Hakeem (the greatest post player of all time) 9. Kobe (the ultimate imitator...really learned to incorporate the game of other greats in his game...and oh yes..81!) 10. Russell (the winning-est player of all time)
Yall ngas must be young an just go by rumors and stuff yall read. I seen clutch city happen wit my own eyes, Hakeem was not "all alone" he had a hall of famer you mighta heard of Clyde the Glyde Drexler for his second ring
20/7/11 on 52% doesn't look good? He's not the shooter that they were but none of them, outside of LeBron, are as versatile as he was. Even with the slower pace of today, Magic would still post near trip dub bumbers on 50% shooting.
