The results are in: Voter ID Fraud a myth - but we knew that

At the risk of being an elitist with my fancy facts:

http://news.yahoo.com/report-taxpayers-subsidize-ceo-pay-040124133--abc-news-deals.html

 

I get the difference but it's not a perfect division. We do restrict voting, as in age requirements, so it is legitimate to question where the line is. And that means that nothing is off the table.

Theoretical. Riddle me this: why is it against the law to print currency even if I don't use it? Prevention. Illegal currency is a clearer and more understandable threat but Voter ID with 13-15 Million illegal aliens running around our country is not a radical step to take.

I am not arguing for the right of my minor kids to vote. I'm pointing out the impurity of the right-- my kids are US citizens, so voting is not a right of all US citizens. It is, in fact, more like a privilege.

Those who we want to have it can have it. Does that really sound like a right?

 

You are entering into new levels of misunderstanding basic principles of our country and have quite the knack for displaying what can only be described as ignorance at this point.

 

Such as...

 

...the difference between a Constitutional right that every American has to vote and the privilege of driving a car.

In my opinion, the right to vote is just as fundamental to our Republic as the right to bear arms, a right that "shall not be infringed." Given that there is no appreciable amount of ACTUAL voter fraud going on and that Republicans are, by their own admission, using these laws to boost the chances that Republicans will be elected, there is no good reason that these laws should be in effect.

I am not against Voter ID, so long as the ID can be acquired easily at no expense to any citizen who wants to vote, you know, like voter registrations are already.

 

Once again you are mistaking "right" and "privilege".

Counterfeiting is a very real problem:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3228919...s/t/funny-money-no-laughing-matter-recession/
[rquoter]Funny money no laughing matter in recession

Businesses see rise in counterfeiting as better-quality bills escape detection[/rquoter]

Illegals voting or voting fraud in general isn't a problem by your own admission. You have no evidence other than your own opinion that it could become a problem. You are advocating a policy that will cost billions for a problem that doesn't exist.

So pretty much in your view then all the rights that we as adults have, vote, enter contracts, free speech, free assembly and etc.., that are restricted to kids you consider those privileges.. You do understand why we call them "minors" in the first place.

 

Voting is a privilege because children can't vote? Ha

 

But, for the sixth time, every American does not have the right to vote. Did you escort your kids to the polls? I'm not advocating children voting but the reality is that every American does not have the right to vote. There's just not other way to cut it.

 

Of course I do and by calling them minors we feel justified in restricting their "rights" as American citizens. I'm not saying at all that it is wrong; I'm just calling it what it is-- a compromise on the "rights" of an American citizen.

BTW, I think the term "minor" is more of a legal application first. I don't believe it is even in the Constitution. :grin:

 

Why do they not have the right then? According to the logic here a privilege has tougher restrictions than a right... so what is a 14-YO to do? Nothing. There is nothing they can do except wait four more years. They only have to wait two years to get a Driver's License.

 

the more interesting provision in the PA law is the requirement that all absentee ballots provide the last 4 digits of the voter's SS number

 

Wow, you are obtuse.

Change the word "American" to the phrase "American adult" and my point stands.

Rights > privileges

 

Can you please share why getting an ID card (or license) is such an excruciating chore, when every other one of us has one? (even felons)

I'm beginning to think people on here argue just to argue. You really can't think this is a big deal.

 

Because no one here is elderly, poor, and rural.

 

I have an aunt in La Grange that fits all of those descriptions. She has had a DL since the 60's.

Let's rephrase this: Who do you know that doesn't have an ID or DL and why? Be honest.

 

I don't have a valid Texas ID card. I have no idea where my SS card went, so to acquire ID, I will have to burn a day of vacation to have someone drive me to the SS office, spend the day slogging through that line, then wait 4-6 weeks for that card to arrive. After it does, I get to go to the DPS office to wait in THAT line, take a driving test since my ID has been expired for so long, and then wait another 4-6 weeks for my picture ID to arrive.

That is the story of someone in the fourth largest city in America, where there are actually SS and DL offices locally and I would still have to take two days off work and wait 2-3 months before getting the required ID. I am lucky in that I have a copy of my birth certificate already, so I wouldn't have to send off to Arizona for that.

In some parts of Texas, the closest DL office is 150 miles away. For a poor person, taking a day off of work to get ID might not be as easy as it would be for me, I have vacation time where they may not, I have a vehicle and someone willing to drive me to the offices, but I am so busy at work that even with these advantages, I haven't bothered to get a new DL, mine expired in '08.

I have purchased alcohol in this time, voted a few times, and even got on a plane, all things that the conservatives say we HAVE to have ID to do. If voter ID passed in Texas, I would be able to get one, but for many, that hurdle might just be high enough that they would just forego voting altogether.

I'm not arguing just to argue, I just believe that if we are to impose ID requirements, the necessary ID should be both free and easy for any citizen to acquire. So far, this isn't the case in places like Texas, which is the entire reason that DoJ blocked the Texas law.

 

Obtuse? It's a beloved fact that a 14-YO American citizen cannot vote. Obtuseness is failing to recognize that reality. Changing the language only allows you to prove your point but changing the language also changes the meaning and the reality and eludes the issue that some rights of American citizens are, in fact, abrogated.... often for good reasons.

 

Great. That might be relevant if I said every single poor, elderly, rural person had no ID.

No one - because I'm not connected to a lot of rural, poor, elderly people. But we know plenty of them don't - that's documented fact. Not even the pro-voter ID people dispute that. The dispute is over how difficult it would be for those people to get one.

 

Yes, extremely obtuse.

Every single adult citizen has the right to vote and I believe that this is an even more fundamental right than the right to bear arms, which "shall not be infringed."

If there WERE a "good reason" to require voter ID, I would agree with you. If the required ID were free and easy to acquire, I would agree with you. However the required ID costs money (varying levels depending on the documentation required) and can be difficult to acquire, as detailed in my situation above. In addition, the only reason that Republicans are pushing these laws is to suppress Democratic voters. As such, they are execrable and are the latest examples of Jim Crow laws.

 

What are you bringing as ID when you get on these planes?

I simply don't believe you. Everyone needs an ID these days. You like the idea that there are millions of poor, treehouse residents all over 'Merica, and the only time they choose to climb down is when they git ta votin'!

It simply isn't true.

There was a time where you didn't need an ID to live a normal life. Bank robbers, murderers, and the ilk kinda changed that.

Welcome to the new era. You seem to be behind the times.