The results are in: Voter ID Fraud a myth - but we knew that

The Pew Center on the States recently published a study that should concern all of us. It found 24 million voter registrations in the United States are either invalid or contain significant errors. Almost 2 million dead people are still on the rolls, and nearly 3 million people are registered in two or more states. An organization known as True the Vote recently reported there are 160 counties where more people are registered to vote than there are eligible voters

No fraud? Quote from US Supreme Court decision in 2008
"Flagrant examples of such fraud … have been documented throughout this nation's history by respected historians and journalists."

They aren't prosecuted often because they are so hard to prove.

 

Because they chose to live in the boonies? It's not a legitimate excuse when I tell my cousins it's too far to visit, and it's not a legitimate excuse for voters. I would like to see the percentage of eligible voters in West Texas who do not have an ID yet.

 

First - you suggested that 177 people have been convicted of voter fraud in Minnesota in direct connection to the 2008 senate elections.

This is inaccurate. As far as I know, the figure currently stands at 113. This is no small margin of error.

Second - your premise is that all of these convictions were based on fraudulent votes cast for Frankin.

Third - Is there a proven case, in recent elections, of a systematic problem concerning illegal immigrants casting ballots? I'm looking for facts and proof, not conspiracy theories.

Forth - The premise that a voter ID would prevent the few cases of voter fraud that have been proven to occur is not accurate.

 

Well let's frame the question this way: 10 or less people are convicted of voting fraudulently in the United States per year. Should big government put into effect provisions that all citiens who want to vote have to get state driver's licenses or state ID cards even if this prevents millions or tens of millions of US citizens from being eliggible to vote.

I suspect the polling would show 95% of Dems would say "no" and you might even get 50% of Repubs to say "no".

 

Let's have a bill in Congress. The American Vote Security and Democracy Act. To prevent voter fraud we are authorizing say $100 billion to provide all Americans with a tamper proof voter ID bill at no cost to them as we value the entegrity of the vote so much and want to allow all Americans to vote.

Leaving it to conservative GOP states to try to make it burdensome and expensive rules to disenfranchise voters should not be allowed. Many such practices are still not allowed to be used on minorities in the southern states under the Voting Rights Act, but they should not be allowed in other states or to be used on non-minority voters.

Hopefully even libertarians and conservatives can agree to this.

 

I have found both numbers referenced in dozens of articles.

I didn't say that. I said Franklen won be 312 votes. I suggested that the election was close enough that voter fraud COULD have played a part.

Many counties in Florida have found non-citizens to have voted in elections.




Brennan Center for Justice at New York University School of Law's study is cited on many of the arguments against voter ID laws. Forget that they are left-leaning. The number that 10-11% of eligible voters do not have a valid ID was not asked "do you have a gov ID," they asked 2000 pollers these questions:

1) Do you have a current, unexpired government-issued ID with your picture on it, like a driver’s license or a military ID?

2) If yes, does this photo ID have both your current address AND your current name (as opposed to a maiden name) on it?

3) Do you have any of the following citizenship documents (U.S. birth certificate/U.S. passport/U.S. naturalization papers) in a place where you can quickly find it if you had to show it tomorrow?

4) If yes, does [that document] have your current name on it (as opposed to a maiden name)?



Not to mention, the biggest proponents to these laws are the liberals and the poor. Funny, the poor, who receive government assistance through programs such as welfare, food stamps, and others...already require a photo ID...

 

Would it even cost that much? IDs range from $5 in Maine, to $28 in Oregon. If 10 percent of our pop, 33 mil needed a $15 card...would only cost half a billion. That's IF ALL of them needed new IDs.

 

Yet polls STILL show that the majority are in favor of voter ID laws.

 

Sounds like some folks here would have no problem re-instituting the old poll tax, because many of the voter suppression tactics advocated by the GOP are essentially poll tax by proxy.

Collecting the tax at the polls is replaced with forcing the prospective voter to jump through hoops and outlay monies for additional identification.

Same results.

 

Jump through hoops? To get a drivers license? I think we are just making excuses for these people. It may be moderately difficult for people living in West Texas, but then again ANYTHING that requires driving is inconvenient and moderately difficult for people living out there.

10 dollars is all it would cost.

 

Um yeah. Some of them aren't very quiet about their desire to remove access of voting from those who either cannot afford it or don't reach their arbitrary level of intelligence to vote. I would say luckily we don't live in the 1800s any longer, but there are too many people out there with money and influence who wish that to be the case, so I can't say I'm comfortable that those of us who enjoy equal rights for all will win this fight.

 

I have not seen the number that you suggested. Can you post a link to one of these dozens of articles that suggests that there have been 177 convicted cases of voter fraud directly involving the 2008 senatorial race?

However, it did not. And suggesting that there should be a federal solution to a localized state problem seems to be out of line with the typical conservative ideology.

I would be interested in hearing about these cases. Did they impact an election? Was there a case involving illegal immigrants voting in an election where it was not caught and actually counted?

Which brings me to my main point. Disenfranchising 7% of legitimate voters in order to solve a problem that seems to occur less than 1% of the time seems a dubious solution. Perhaps there are alternatives?

 

Then let us call it what it is. You support an eligible voter tax.

 

Why should I provide anything to you, you haven't provided any links or sources to me? Not to mention the dozen or so other times liberals here have told me to simply "google it" whenever you ask them to source their quotes.

Google it.

TBH, I just don't care enough about this law. I think everyone should have a valid photo ID to prove they are who they say they are when voting, when receiving any kind of government benefit, etc. Which they already are. Just because you can't prove voter fraud, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. The nature of elections and of the fraud itself makes it virtually impossible to detect after the fact.

But you can keep working to convince people that its just the GOP trying to suppress the minorities vote, cause that's what we do right? We just do anything to screw over anyone who isn't rich and white. Thank God we have the morally righteous leftist to correct our strayed path...

 

Yeah, that's a lot of people. A whole lot of people.

That's nice and all, but untrue.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...discriminate/2012/07/13/gJQAvXopiW_story.html


On Friday morning, Judge Robert L. Wilkins looked out across the packed courtroom at the lawyer for Texas and suggested that the state’s voter ID law would force some people to travel more than 100 miles to get the documents required for a photo identification.

“How does that impact your argument?” asked Wilkins. “Isn’t that unduly burdensome?”

John Hughes, the state’s attorney, said Texans in rural areas are used to driving long distances. “People who want to vote already have an ID or can easily get it,” he said.


You're simply wrong. Even the state's attorney didn't argue this point - instead just saying it's no big deal (which it is, when you have to take a day off from work). 1/3rd of Texas counties don't have a place where you can get the required ID. Think about that - if you live in 81 out of 254 counties, you have to go to another county, during work hours, to get an ID.

Not sure where you get this idea. There was no question about the voters' IDs in the Minnesota cases - that's how we know convicted felons were voting. They told the voting place who they were and didn't lie about it. So having a picture ID does nothing to change that.

 

So, for example, if you collect that $10 at the voting booth, you would call that...?

 

So, in other words, you are either spreading false information or not interested in the facts.

http://www.minnpost.com/politics-po...d-election-fraud-found-virtually-non-existent

http://minnesota.publicradio.org/co...olinaut/archive/2011/10/poligraph_voter.shtml