For the right: a stratification of liberal posters in the D&D, courtesy of bigtexxx

By the way, these posters are not "liberal" in the traditional sense. Most of them are actually the opposite of progressive. They do not want less government, they want more. The term "liberal" has been used incorrectly in US political discussion for quite a while now. A true liberal would want less governmental intervention and would be wary of religious threats to individual liberties and freedoms.

 

http://www.pickthebrain.com/blog/how-to-overcome-your-inferiority-complex/

 

at least we experience for the first time the OP write his own name on the subject line as if without it we won't know he posted it

 

I am curious but would you consider government intervention to ban religious practices and the establishment of religious institutions to be classically liberal?

 

No.

I would consider it liberal to guarantee freedom of religion equally for every religion, as long as other basic freedoms are not affected.

If proponents of one religion say it is their religious practice to do something that basically amounts to oppression and/or abuse of a subset of their members, people who think they should support that have lost their moral compass and totally misunderstand what it means to be "liberal".

 

I don't think I agree with your definitions, mainly because you are confusing "liberal" and "progressive" with one particular aspect of government (i.e., size or influence). The two are not mutually inclusive.

Liberal or progressive people could be very pro-state (i.e., using the government to "force" civil rights laws) or anti-state (i.e., wary of excess governmental authority inasmuch as it might lead to authoritarianism or similar liberty-reducing power). I think most try to balance the two sides.

In my opinion, any statement that starts with "a true liberal would" or "a true conservative would" is inherently wrong because it's placing a methodological constraint on an ideological term.

 

I am not confusing anything. It's just that the term "liberal" is used differently (in my opinion incorrectly) in North America nowadays, which is what I wanted to point out.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberalism

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberalism_in_the_United_States

Nowadays, many in the USA, especially conservatives, basically use the term "liberal" to describe leftists. In contrast to that, I consider myself a liberal conservative, but not on the left side of the political spectrum.

 

Absolutely agree, and it's an incredibly annoying problem (one of many reasons I cannot stand American political rhetoric). But you also stated that a traditional liberal wants less government. I think that's a bit too broad to be accurate.

I see your point. I suppose, at the heart of the matter, I find most political labels trite to the point of stupidity (well, at least, as it matters in public forums).

 

I don't know about this source (just googled it and only read that page), but this site explains it pretty much the way I see it:

http://www.whatisliberalism.com/?cat=5

I guess I am a "classical liberal" then. It's kind of funny that nowadays in the USA, the meaning of "liberal" has almost been reversed from its origins, for whatever reason.

I agree with you that these categorizations are flawed, of course.

 

Interesting fact: Consolidation of power in an ultra-rich plutocrat class = "liberal" according to 1 out of 1 German/Korean ESL students.

 

so where does ATW fit on the list?

 

sammyboi - I understand you are trying hard to prove yourself now that your idol and intellectual superior Trader_Jorge is back, but perhaps you should go back to chasing some ambulance cars?

Alternatively, you could read the Wikipedia article on liberalism. Although understanding it would probably be a bit challenging for you, it might keep you busy for a few hours.

 

The problem with those definitions though is how would John Maynard Keynes and also the UK Liberal Party fit into those definitions?

I agree with Rhad but your definitions seem to be too constricting and also don't even fit with what many Europeans consider as "liberal".

 

Toys R Us level? :grin:

 

Tell me what "many Europeans" consider as liberal, then.

The basic premise of classical liberalism is less government.

If you want to educate yourself:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classical_liberalism

 

As someone who's related to Quincy Jones, I much prefer, The Sports & Entertainments.


Count it.

 

Fapping it to Rashida for the 8th time this morning doesn't count.

 

Would be impressive, though. 8 times?

 

Not for a 12-year-old.