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Saudi Judo athlete to withdraw if hijab banned

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by Air Langhi, Jul 30, 2012.

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Should she have to take of her hijab

  1. yes

    26 vote(s)
    40.6%
  2. No

    30 vote(s)
    46.9%
  3. I don't know

    8 vote(s)
    12.5%
  1. AMS

    AMS Member

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    In Saudi or at the Olympics?

    I know the first one isn't true. Don't know why they would impose something that isn't even law in their own country. Unless all of this whole story has just been blown out of proportion by the Islamophobes.
     
  2. IzakDavid13

    IzakDavid13 Member

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    This is one case of not being just about islamophobia, but the fact that someone wanted the rules of engagement changed or they wouldn't compete in the event.

    The other 99.9% didn't kick up a diva stink or spit the dummy, they knew the rules and were willing to adhere to them in order to represent their country at the pinnacle of sports.

    You can see why people are starting to get fed up with the minority dictating what the majority does.

    Good luck to her. I hope this inspires muslim girls to chase after their dreams and goals, and opens more doors for women in Saudi Arabia.

    In Australia we would've just said, 'on yer bike then mate, see ya later.'

    As was stated before, the Sikhs carrying daggers into the Olympics should've been more of a concern...but it is what it is.
     
  3. AroundTheWorld

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    Some Muslims believe hijab covering for women should be compulsory as part of sharia, i.e. Muslim law. Wearing of the hijab was enforced by the Taliban regime in Afghanistan, and is enforced in the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia and in the Islamic Republic of Iran.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hijab
     
  4. thejav

    thejav Member

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    Probably already answered.. why can't she wear the hijab and compete??
     
  5. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Member

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    Here's a pretty good article on the issue.
    http://msn.foxsports.com/olympics/judo/story/Hijab-controversy-simmers-at-Olympics/

    LONDON (AP)

    Unlike the Olympics with its gold, silver and bronze, life sometimes dishes up events in which nobody feels like a winner.

    Such a moment is unfolding in the box-like judo venue a short ride from Olympic Park, where an effort to include more women in the games has slammed headlong into efforts at multiculturalism and questions of basic sporting fairness.

    In the center of it all is Wojdan Ali Seraj Abdulrahim Shahrkhani, a wide-faced Saudi teenager whose desire to compete against the world's best judo fighters - without violating conservative Islamic mores - has forced organizers, the international judo federation and the Saudi Olympic Committee to huddle repeatedly in search of a solution.

    What they've come up with, that Shahrkhani can compete in an as-yet-unspecified, modified version of the hijab, is unlikely to satisfy everybody.

    Already, Monday night's ruling is being panned by hard-liners in the Middle East, who say they cannot see how it will be sufficiently modest, and from rights groups that say the inclusion of Shahrkhani and another female Saudi athlete, the first women ever to compete for the kingdom, amounts to window dressing, since millions of other Saudi women are effectively barred from openly playing sports, or even watching.

    ''I doubt it is Islamic to play judo,'' Sheikh Abul-Kheir Ahmed, a cleric who teaches law and Islamic jurisdiction at Cairo's Al-Azhar University, the region's premier religious institution, told The Associated Press on Tuesday. ''Men will be looking at her and she will likely be wearing form-fitting attire.''

    Others, including some hard-line women, were even more insistent that a compromise, any compromise, cannot be adequate.

    ''Any agreement (with the Olympics Committee) has come at the expense of her hijab and her commitment and faith,'' said Alaa Ahmed, a producer for Maria TV, the first pan-Arabic channel to feature only fully veiled women. ''She can play for herself in a place for women only, but not on an international stage in front of men to win a medal at the expense of countering her religion. ... She should not please this world in exchange for the hereafter.''

    On another plane of debate entirely are competitors who may be sympathetic to Shahrkhani's plight, but say she never should have been allowed to compete in the first place because she is not nearly at the level of the other Olympians - a blue belt in which everyone else owns a high-level black belt. One former medalist called her a novice, and another competitor warned that judo fighters are not trained to go easy.

    Some have also voiced concern that the hijab - if not sufficiently form-fitting - could lead to choking, or even offer Shahrkhani a competitive advantage, though one she is presumably not skilled enough to take much advantage of.

    The aim of judo is to throw opponents flat on their back or pin them to the ground for 25 seconds. Players can also win if they get their rivals to submit in a chokehold or stranglehold.
    Most judo matches are dominated by aggressive attempts by players to grip their opponents' uniform - which nearly all come untucked from their belts as the match proceeds. Taller judo players - like those in Shahrkhani's heavyweight category - are more likely to try to reach behind an opponent's head to grip the uniform at the base of the neck for a dominant grip.

    ''If (Shahrkhani) wears a tight-fitting headscarf, that would be fine, as long as it is close to the body,'' said Eva Csernoviczki, a Hungarian judo fighter who has already taken home a bronze medal. ''But if she's wearing a looser one, that should not be allowed. It is too loose and could be difficult for other judo players to grip her. ... It could also be dangerous if you grab her headscarf accidentally and try to choke or strangle her because it could get in the way.''

    There is also the risk that Shahrkhani's headscarf could come off as she grapples with her opponent in her match Friday, leaving her exposed - quite literally - to hard-liners who will see her as having dishonored herself.

    It's a tremendous amount for an 18-year-old and her family to take, particularly given the normal pressure Olympians feel ahead of the most important competition of their lives.

    Shahrkhani's father, Ali, said his daughter is focused on the competition and training at a secluded facility in London. He would not describe the modified hijab or answer any other questions about the controversy.

    ''It's her first time in competition and it's the Olympic Games, so she is focused on that,'' the elder Shahrkhani said in a telephone interview.

    While the controversy is unlikely to go away, at least some people are being won over by his young daughter's courage and determination.

    ''She is a pioneer. She is also a tough cookie,'' said Fawaz A. Gerges, director of the Middle East Center at the London School of Economics. ''When we look back this Olympics, we will say that moment in London was a historic step forward for Saudi women and their place in society.''
     
  6. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Member

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  7. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Member

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    No surprise but Shaherkani defeated in first match wearing something that looks like a swim cap. I haven't seen the match yet but from what it sounds like the match only lasted so long because the Saudi was defensive and her opponent was tentative in the attack.

    I personally am more bothered they let her compete in a black belt even though she isn't than with wearing the head covering which sounds like wasn't an issue.
    http://www.nbcolympics.com/news-blogs/judo/saudi-womens-olympic-judo-bout-over-in-82-seconds.html

    Saudi women's Olympic judo bout over in 82 seconds
    LONDON (AP) — It was over in little more than a minute, but it will go down as one of the most memorable moments of the London Games.

    A young Saudi judo fighter's decisive defeat on the mat Friday is being hailed as a victory for women in the conservative Gulf kingdom, a step that would have seemed unimaginable if thousands of fans at the sprawling ExCel Center and millions at home hadn't seen it with their own eyes.

    Wojdan Ali Seraj Abdulrahim Shahrkhani was one of just two women competing for Saudi Arabia at the games, the first time the Gulf state has sent female athletes at all. And she was only able to compete in judo after a compromise between Olympic organizers, the international judo federation and Saudi officials that cleared the way for her to wear a modified hijab.

    Even that was unacceptable to hard-liners, who said she was dishonoring herself by fighting in front of men, including the male referee and judges.

    The crowd roared as Shahrkhani stepped onto the mat for her fight against Puerto Rico's Melissa Mojica wearing judo dress and what appeared to be a tight-fitting black cap.

    The drama was not in seeing who would win. In a competition where everyone else holds a high-level black belt, Shahrkhani has only attained a blue. Her father, Ali, an international judo referee, summed up the odds his daughter was facing.

    "They are champions she is fighting, and my daughter, for her it is the first competition," he said.

    Despite only earning a blue belt in the Japanese martial art, Shahrkhani wore a black belt to compete.

    On the mat, the Saudi looked tentative and cautious on her feet, unwilling to grab Mojica's uniform and making little attempt to throw her off balance. The two heavyweights circled each other for about a minute before Mojica, the 24th-ranked judo fighter in the world in her weight class, grabbed Shahrkhani with a secure grip on her collar and flipped her onto her back, ending the match in 82 seconds.

    As she rose to her feet, Shahrkhani gently reached for her head to make sure the hijab was still in place. It was, and the two women bowed to each other and left to a loud ovation.

    Afterward, the 18-year-old walked with her father past a scrum of journalists and television cameras.

    "I am happy to be at the Olympics," she whispered in Arabic, her father holding both her arms. "Unfortunately, we did not win a medal, but in the future we will and I will be a star for women's participation."

    It didn't take long for voices of support to pour in from the Middle East.

    "Saudi judoka Wojdan Shahrkhani lost to her much more experienced competitor ... but many are proud of her," Saudi blogger and journalist Ahmed Al Omran tweeted.

    Another Saudi resident, Alaa Al-Mizyen, added: "Wojdan remains a winner to me and millions of men AND women around the world."

    A Saudi-born man who has a blog called Saudi Root wrote, "I'll walk out later with the Saudi flag around my neck & my head up high as if we won the biggest gold medal in the history of the Olympics."

    Shahrkhani's opponent also had kind words, and said fears the hijab would get in the way, or even be dangerous, were overblown.

    "There was no problem at all with the hijab. I think everyone has a right to their religion and to be given an opportunity," Mojica said. "This is no problem in judo."

    In many ways, however, the young Saudi's story is just beginning.

    Back home, some hard-liners have urged her not to jeopardize her place in the afterlife for a fleeting bit of fame on Earth. Others have warned that she and her family could face ostracism when she goes home.

    "She will definitely face difficulties (back home)," Hashem Abdo Hashem, editor-in-chief of Saudi's Arabic daily newspaper Okaz, told The Associated Press. "The society here will look at her negatively."

    Saudi women face widespread restrictions in nearly all aspects of public and private life, particularly under guardianship laws that require them to have a male relative's permission before they can travel abroad, work, marry, get divorced or even be treated at some hospitals. It is also the only country in the world that forbids women — both Saudi and foreign — from driving. Some women who have challenged the driving ban have even been detained.

    Recently, King Abdullah has pushed for some limited reforms in the face of opposition from the country's ultraconservative clerics. Women have been promised the ability to run and vote in municipal elections in 2015, and a new university near Jiddah allows men and women to study together in contrast to the strict general separation of the sexes across the kingdom.

    The decision to allow Shahrkhani and another U.S.-based Saudi woman to compete in the games is an extension of those reforms.
    Saudi women's Olympic judo bout over in 82 seconds
     
  8. AroundTheWorld

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    Bless her. Brave girl.
     
  9. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Member

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    Agreed, this story makes no sense from a rules standpoint...

    It's a great achievement, but it feels unearned and manufactured.
     
  10. da_juice

    da_juice Member

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    Judoka- is it an olympic rule to be a black belt to compete in martial arts events? I understand and agree with the outrage that a novice can compete, but do you know if it's a rule?
     
  11. Nook

    Nook Member

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    Come on dude......
     
  12. Mathloom

    Mathloom Shameless Optimist

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    adeel, it is not technically illegal, but you must consider the fact that the religious police are not technically legal. The religious police can fine anyone for breaking the mufti's interpretation of sharia. They are not lawyers, and they are not law enforcement officers, and they are not enforcing Saudi law. They are sharia police.

    I hope you don't believe that adherence to hijab would be this high in Saudi Arabia under normal circumstances. You don't need to go any further than Saudi students studying abroad to understand the difference between hijab not being illegal in Saudi and hijab not being illegal in any other country.
     
  13. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Member

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    From my understanding no, unless there is a special set of Olympics rules. About 10 years ago the Olympics changed the qualifications so that competitors had to earn a certain amount of points from international level competitions to be eligible for the Olympics. For practical purposes though anyone with that much competition under their belt would be a black belt. That rule though has been waived by the IOC for developing countries and in the case of Shaherkani they probably considered a Saudi women as coming from a developing country.

    I generally don't make a deal about rank and it is within the prerogative of her coach to promote her to any rank of up to first degree black belt and the IJF's whether they recognize it or not. Also traditional Japanese ranks are only white, brown and black. That said I feel that ranks should be earned and it doesn't sound like she earned it. Whether she competes in a hijab or not that is a matter of policy but giving her belt should be a matter of accomplishment.
     
  14. VanityHalfBlack

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    <iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/NMVORNrhA-g" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
     
  15. da1

    da1 Member

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    Total ignorance
     
  16. AroundTheWorld

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    Nope, totally right. You, on the other hand...
     
  17. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Member

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    9 years ago Shahrkani had to fight wearing a head covering and even with that she still faced death threats back home from those who said she was risking her soul to both fight on an international forum, infront of men and not following Muslim modesty. Yesterday another Saudi female Judoka took the mat without wearing a head covering and as the best competitor from a Saudi female team. She also faced an Israeli in the first round and fought respectfully. While Tahani Alqahtani's Olympic experience only last one match like Sharkani's it showed how far things have come for Saudi female athletes.

    https://www.ijf.org/news/show/saudi-arabia-and-judo-make-history-in-tokyo-2020
    Saudi Arabia and Judo Make History in Tokyo 2020
    Written by Nicolas Messner on 30. Jul 2021

    It all started nine years ago. A first step was accomplished when Wojdan Ali Seraj Abdulrahim Shahrkhani competed for the first time in the judo tournament at the Olympic Games, in London. It was the first time in history that a female athlete from Saudi Arabia participated. With Tahani Alqahtani it is not one single step but a giant leap forward. Today in Saudi Arabia all sports are practised actively by women. Sport has been promoting education and excellence to the entire community.

    For the Tokyo 2020 Olympics, it was announced prior to the Games that Saudi Arabia earned a last-minute wildcard to participate in the competition in the women's +78kg with Tahani Alqahtani. After the official draw, she discovered that her first round would be against Raz Hershko from Israel. Immediately questions arose that were answered today in the most humanist and respectful way, by two athletes representing their two delegations.

    With what happened today at the Nippon Budokan, once again judo makes history and helps to build a better world, where respect is the core value of human relations. Saudi Arabia proves that, through sport, we can go beyond differences and make sport a force to unite the world.

    The IJF and the entire sporting community highly commends and applauds His Royal Highness for supporting and protecting the decision of the athlete.

    The match between Tahani Alqahtani and Raz Hershko took place and that represents a massive step forward that proves respect and friendship while showing that sport can transcend any political or exterior influence.

    Tahani Alqahtani received her wildcard prior to the start of the Olympic Games after a decision by the IOC Executive Board, who underlined their goal of having, for the first time ever, at least one female and one male athlete in each of the NOCs along with the IOC Refugee Olympic Team participating at this Games.

    It is important to understand the woman herself. She has become a role model, representing values and power. Tahani Alqahtani started judo a few years ago at the Saudi Judo Training Centre, based at King Saud University in Riyadh. Immediately the 21 year old showed great skill and she distinguished herself among her teammates, making it a natural progression to join the Saudi Arabian senior female national team. Her objective was today to be on the tatami and to do what she knows best.

    This is what she came for, in full respect of the judo rules and with respect for her opponent. What happened today is not a minor event, it is a massive step forward and the IJF is happy, together with all its partners, from the IOC to the NOC of Saudi Arabia and all those involved, to have contributed to a world where understanding means something.[​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     

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