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[U.S.A.] We're not #1 - are the good days gone forever?

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by thadeus, Jul 25, 2012.

  1. thadeus

    thadeus Member

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    Check links and sources at the original page: Published on Psychology Today (http://www.psychologytoday.com)

    Why America is in decline
    By Ray Williams
    Created Jul 25 2012 - 11:03am

    The recent mass shooting in Colorado has prompted many observers to claim it is only a symptom of serious problems in American society. The United States has been the strongest and most powerful nation in the last century, a beacon of progress and the good life for the world, but that view is becoming suspect. While predictions have been made before about the decline of America, there is good evidence now that makes the prediction more valid.

    Great nations and empires have risen and fallen before. Alfred McCoy, writing in The Nation, contends, “Despite the aura of omnipotence most empires project, a look at their history should remind us that they are fragile organisms. So delicate is their ecology of power that, when things start to go truly bad, empires regularly unravel with unholy speed: just a year for Portugal, two years for the Soviet Union, eight years for France, 11 years for the Ottomans, 17 years for Great Britain, and, in all likelihood, 22 years for the United States, counting from the crucial year 2003.”

    What is the evidence for the decline, if there is one? Here are some very convincing facts that come from the United Nations, the OECD, The Legatum Institute, The U.S. National Intelligence Council, Congress, the CIA, business publications and other respected institutions and organizations:

    • The U.S. is the number one arms dealer in the world, selling military weapons to a variety of countries.
    • The U.S. currently has (depending on the source of information) somewhere between 800 and 1,000 military bases in over 50 countries, and still regards itself as the world’s police force.
    • The U.S. has the highest poverty levels of all countries in the OECD.
    • The U.S. has the highest levels of income equality of all Western nations and ranks the 42nd worst in the world according the CIA Factbook.
    • U.S. adult life expectancy ranks 44th in the world, and worst among all Western nations. In the Legatum study, the U.S. ranks 27th for the health of its citizens; life expectancy is below average compared to 30 advanced countries measured by the OECD and obesity is the highest in the U.S. among all those countries.
    • The U.S. ranks 34th of all countries in terms of child mortality.
    • The U.S. ranks #1 of all Western countries in terms of violent crime. The U.S. is responsible for over 80% of all the gun deaths in the 23 richest countries combined. At least 24 Americans every day (8-9,000 a year) are killed by people with guns – and that doesn’t count the ones accidentally killed by guns or who commit suicide with a gun. Count them and you can triple that number to over 25,000.
    • After leading the world for decades in 25-34 year olds with university degrees, the U.S. is now in 12th place. The World Economic Forum ranked the U.S. at 52ndamong 139 nations in the quality of its university math and science instruction in 2010. Nearly 50% of all graduate students in the sciences in the U.S. are foreigners, most of whom will be returning to their home countries.
    • According toe the OECD 15 year olds in the U.S. rank 17th in the world in science and 25th in math. The U.S. ranks 12th among developed countries in college graduation, and 79th in elementary-school enrollment.
    • The U.S. ranks 23rd in the world in terms of infrastructure, well behind that of every other major advanced economy. The American Society of Civil Engineers prepared a report card on the state of America’s infrastructure-roads, bridges, dams etc. In the latest version the overall “GPA’ for the U.S. was a “D,” and the cost of bringing all systems up to adequacy, not an “A” was estimated at $2.2 trillion.
    • In 2008, the U.S. had fallen from first to third in global merchandise exports. The U.S. trails Japan for worldwide patent applications, but China will soon bypass both. In 2009, the Information Technology and Innovation Foundation reports that the U.S. ranks last among the 49 nations survey when it came to “change” in “global innovation-based competitiveness” in the last decade.
    • The Legatum Institute, a London-based research firm publishes an annual “prosperity index” and ranks the U.S. 9th, five notches lower than last year.
    • The U.S. ranks 13th in terms of well being according to the United Nations Human Development Index, and ranks 11th in the OECD’s measure of “life satisfaction.
    • Ten years ago the U.S. was ranked first in terms of average wealth per adult. In 2010, it fell to 7th
    • In 2001 the U.S. ranked 4th in the world in per capita broadband Internet use. Today it ranks 15th.
    • The U.S. has lost over 40,000 factories since 2001 and has lost 32% of all its manufacturing jobs since the year 2000.
    • Manufacturing employment in the computer industry in the U.S. is at the same level in 2010 that it was in 1975.
    • According to a new study by the Economic Policy Institute, if the U.S. trade deficit with China continues to increase at is current rate, the U.S. economy will lose over 500,000 jobs in one year; between 2000 and 2009 America’s trade deficit with China increased nearly 300%.
    • The Congressional Budget Office is projecting that U.S. government public debt will hit 716% of GDP by the year 2080.
    • 25-30 percent of the U.S. federal budget is spent on the military. The cost for the Iraq and Afghanistan wars is now creeping up to $10 trillion.
    • Fortune magazine’s ranking of the world’s largest companies has only two American firms in the top 10--Wal-Mart at No. 1 and ExxonMobil at No. 3. And there are already three Chinese companies in the top 10.
    • In their book, The Spirit Level: Why Greater Equality Makes Societies Stronger, Professors Richard Wilkinson and Kate Pickett, present data taken from multiple credible sources that show the gap between the poor and rich the greatest in the U.S. among all developed nations; child well being the worst in the U.S. among all developed nations; and levels of trust among people in the U.S. among the worst of all developed nations.

    The Subcommittee on International Organizations, Human Rights and Oversight of the U.S. Congress’ House Committee on Foreign Affairs stated, after examining the issue of the U.S.’s declining image abroad, “the decline in international approval of U.S. leadership is caused largely by opposition to the invasion of Iraq, U.S. support for dictators, and practices such as torture and rendition. They testified that this opposition is strengthened by the perception that our decisions are made unilaterally and without constraint by international law or standards-and that our rhetoric about democracy and human rights is hypocritical.”

    What conclusions should we come to about this information?

    In an article in The Nation, Alfred McCoy argues that “the demise of the United States as a global superpower could come far more quickly than anyone imagines,” suggesting it will be complete by 2025. The U.S. National Intelligence Council admitted in 2008 that America’s global power was declining. A Global Trends 2025 report said, “the transfer of global wealth and economic power is under way from West to East,” without precedent. Citing an opinion poll, McCoy reports that in August 2010, 65% of Americans believed the country was “in a state of decline.”

    McCoy argues that a big contributor to the U.S.’s decline is militarism; specifically what he calls “micro-militarism,” which has plagued previous empires. These are foreign military adventures, which are not full blown “wars” that end up costing horrendous amounts of money or end in defeats. He says, as “allies worldwide begin to realign their politics to take cognizance of rising Asian powers, the cost of maintain 800 or more overseas military bases will simply become unsustainable, finally forcing a staged withdrawal on a still-unwilling Washington.”

    In his book, America’s Engineered Decline, William Norman Grigg, editor of the New American contends that America’s decline has occurred because it is exhibiting the same characteristics of poverty, crime, and illiteracy and ill health that are found in third world countries. Grigg cites a quote by Mahatma Gandhi who said the roots of conflict and violence within a nation are “wealth without work, pleasure without conscience knowledge without character, commerce without morality, science without humanity, worship without sacrifice and politics without principle.”

    Gideon Rachman, writing in the prestigious journal, Foreign Policy, comments in the new economic and political order which is witnessing America’s decline: “Britain, France, Italy, even Germany--are slipping down the economic ranks. India, Brazil, Turkey are on the rise. They each have their own foreign-policy preferences which collectively constrain American’s ability to shape the world.” He concludes, “America will never again experience the global dominance it enjoyed in the 17 years between the Soviet Union’s collapses in 1991 and the financial crisis of 2008. Those days are over.”

    Economists J. Bradford DeLong and Stephen Cohen of the University of California write in their new book, The End of Influence, “it [influence] is gone and it is not likely to return in the foreseeable future...The American standard of living will decline relative to the rest of the industrialized and industrializing world...The United States will lose power and influence.”

    James Fallows, writing in The Atlantic magazine, says, “our government is old and broken and dysfunctional and may even be beyond repair....it will make a difference if we improvise and strive to make the best of the path through our time --and our children’s, and their grandchildren’s,” rather than stay on the current path.

    Whatever the causes, the decline of America as a dominant world power, with serious internal economic and social issues, has already begun, and is not likely to be reversed, without substantial political, economic and social changes The current situation presents monumental challenges to political and social leaders to create the kind of country and culture that’s desired, a path that is unlikely given the wide divide in perspectives that currently exist.


    ------------------------------------------------------

    A lot of info, but something that really needs consideration now.

    It makes me sad that, with our massive income disparity, limited access to healthcare, and huge military budget, we end up looking like a comically-giant version of a third world military junta.
     
    1 person likes this.
  2. ILoveTheRockets

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  3. Cohete Rojo

    Cohete Rojo Member

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    Pomp and circumstance, lost. Oh, what a tragedy!
     
  4. Deckard

    Deckard Blade Runner
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    The thadeus, I think this line has a typo. Isn't it supposed to read inequality?

    - The U.S. has the highest levels of income equality of all Western nations and ranks the 42nd worst in the world according the CIA Factbook.
     
  5. Raven

    Raven Member

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    You mean that outsourcing, free trade, skyrocketing population, tax cuts for the mega rich, declining moral values, break up of the family unit, 24/7 pop culture saturation is bad for society? Who would have thought!
     
  6. Kojirou

    Kojirou Member

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    As opposed to the only other country in the world which is a serious candidate to replace America.

    And don’t give me Brazil, India, and Turkey. I openly laughed at that part of the article.
     
  7. pirc1

    pirc1 Member

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    It is happening because we do not have great leaders in Congress, White House . Instead of trying to do what is the best for the country they are trying to do what is best for their parties. To me there is two rules to good government, improve the life of its citizen year after year and do what ever works.

    If socialism idea or communism works, do it. If capitalism works, do it. Black cat or white cat, the one that catches the mouse is a good cat, that philosophy have worked great for China. This stupid notion of there is one best way of doing things is about as stupid as it comes when governments are involved.
     
  8. napalm06

    napalm06 Huge Flopping Fan

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    This man is on to something.
     
  9. Rocket River

    Rocket River Member

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    Companies find it is easier and more short term profitable to suppress new tech
    than release it.

    When your business and job is dependent on increases this quarter . . ..
    you will worry about next quarter . . . next quarter
    you have to get there 1st . . ..

    This is in the government and in business
    short term thinking . . .
    Our government have this issue . . .folx in office have 2 priorities
    1. Line there pockets as much as they can while in office
    2. stay in office as long as possible

    If they help anyone along the way . . .well that is just a bonus


    Rocket River
     
  10. Depressio

    Depressio Member

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    Seems relevant:

    <iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/16K6m3Ua2nw" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
     
  11. glynch

    glynch Member

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    It happened because corporations which have no other interest but short term profit have control of more and more of our society through bought politicians.

    In many, many areas they can block much needed reform. Reform that is often supported by strong majorities.

    so much of the libertarian/conservative agenda followed for the last 40 years just does not work but victims of corporate propaganda think that more deregulation, less government spending and less taxes will eventually work.

    No other country suffers from such unproductive delusions.
     
  12. Raven

    Raven Member

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    Not really. If you are going to berate America for being smug, perhaps you shouldn't be even more smug while doing it.
     
  13. Qball

    Qball Member

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    Globalism's a b!tch. Rich countries are getting poorer and poor countries are getting richer. Under capitalist economics, it's all a zero sum game. It's slowly starting to even out due to the speed of information in the digital era. What's going on now is just the anticlimax of the status of USA immediately after WWII.
     
  14. Apps

    Apps Member

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    I'd say a big part of the problem [the way I see it] is social/cultural. For example, this American obsession with being "number one" is not only unhealthy, but it is juvenile. For the sake of perspective, America is, for all intents and purposes, a rather pleasant country to reside in. Are there better countries to reside in? Perhaps statistically, as the numbers present above, there are better countries to live in, but the wide array of potential lifestyles offered to you here in America is unrivaled elsewhere in the world. I would feel a lot more comfortable in America than I would in Norway, for example. And as much as people like to complain about the government... you know what my father (an immigrant to this country) said his favorite part of America was when he first arrived here? The DMV. Yup. He said he was absolutely thrilled when he didn't have to pay anybody off, and he marveled at the "efficiency" of everything. Now that, ladies and gentlemen, is perspective.

    The average American's inability to self-critique and self-analyze without feeling as though he/she's being "un-American" is ridiculous. Just because someone levels a criticism at your country, regardless of whether it's your neighbor or some "pinko", doesn't mean that they hate America. Every nation has problems, and instead of sweeping ours under the rug and chanting "USA! USA! USA! NUMBER ONE! NUMBER ONE!", we should actually try to make this nation a better place. Whether that means becoming more involved in the world of Washington, getting involved in your local government, writing letters to companies, doing volunteer work around town, it means getting involved one way or the other and coming to terms with the fact that your nation, in all its glory, may not be perfect.

    As far as the issue of the infestation of pop-culture goes, I find it to be anomalous (when putting money aside) and a travesty of real American culture. In a nation that has produced the likes of Edwin Arlington Robinson, Walt Whitman, Emily Dickinson, Langston Hughes, Orson Welles, Charlie Chaplin, Stanley Kubrick, Mark Twain, Henry James, Bix Beiderbecke, Louis Armstrong, Miles Davis, Pete Seeger, to name but a few, there is absolutely NO dearth of good art/entertainment for a young person to be without. I have no doubt in my mind that if more young people showed a legitimate interest in all of these things and were guided towards them in their formative years, this nation would be a more culturally grounded place. We haven't lost "the good ole' days", we've simply lost the culture in general! Every nation reveres its poets, its writers, its artists... find me any schmuck on the street and they've probably read more Cosmo than literature, and have probably seen more gory movies than good. Believe it or not, that's not the way it is in a lot of places!

    In the end, we're like a nation of mindless iconoclasts without an idea of what it is we're actually spurning, puttering about with our ADD medicine and telling ourselves how great we are, terrified to think otherwise. Sorry for the rant.
     
    2 people like this.
  15. Dubious

    Dubious Member

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  16. tallanvor

    tallanvor Member

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    America produces most the worlds medical advancements. America gives more people high-lvl education than any other country. America is more generous then any other country (even with wealth factored in). Based on that alone I would claim America does more for humanity than every other country combined.

    A simple way to tell America is the best; we have endless lines of immigrants trying to get in. People risk everything to get here. No other country has such a situation.

    It's amazing how much liberals love to shout how awful they think America is. Like they take pride in it.

    GTFO. Go back to whatever ****hole country you came from if it's so much better. Then, in a couple years, you can get on your knees and come beg America for help when Islamic nations try to blow you up. We will still come help you of course, because we are America and we are badass.
     
    #16 tallanvor, Jul 25, 2012
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2012
    1 person likes this.
  17. B-Bob

    B-Bob "94-year-old self-described dreamer"

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    Hell yea! But you forgot to mention we are ****ING FIRST when it comes to WELCOMING good healthy DISCUSSIONS about the STATE of our #1 country!

    I mean, right?

    Also: :rolleyes: You have a mean bark for an ostrich.

    I'll say it for the 1,000th time: criticism ain't hate. Sometimes criticism is the deepest form of love, especially when you want to help the thing or person you love get better.
     
  18. HombreDeHierro

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    yeah its still a great place to live

    but you're thinking of it far too simplistically. there are real issues at foot and America is slow to act on them
     
  19. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Member

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    In the United States the virtue of patriotism is followed on the extreme end. Politicians and leaders will get torn apart if they ever criticize the "American Way". There is no need for improvement because our system or way of life is already perfected. A true patriot finds faults with their country and wants to fix it. Unfortunately Americans have an irrational fear of foreign ideologies and its "Our way is the only morally correct way".
     
  20. thadeus

    thadeus Member

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    Yeah, that's definitely a typo.

    Replace America? I'd imagine America will still be here - it will just have a lot less money for infrastructure, technology, and administration than Brazil, India, and Turkey.

    I agree with just about everything here. The greatest failure of any nation/age/religion has always been its leaders.

    Practical considerations are of real importance. Ideological considerations (OMG IS SOCILAISMS!!!) are garbage that holds us back and prevents us from updating our system.


    Even though this information looks at things from a national perspective, I don't think that's the most accurate way to consider things. We're talking about a world where most of the wealth (for very few of the people) is generated by multi-national corporations. All the same, comparing standards of living through things like access to healthcare, incidences of violent crime, wealth distribution, and opportunities for education, clearly show that the U.S.A. is dropping off pretty rapidly.

    That's what he does. He thinks the world is simple, and that all issues have a yes or no answer.

    That's the problem. We have old, rusty, useless ideologies preventing us from moving forward (AMURRICA IZ A CAPITLSIT COUNTRY OMG!!! JEUS MADE IT TAHT WAY!!!), we have old senators with old ideas in an corrupted and creaky government, we have the most powerful men in this nation fueled by old money .... historically, the ascendant countries are always the ones that have modernized most recently (there's an actual academic term for this, but I can't remember it), and the reasons why the previous powers couldn't stay on top is because of the sorts of things I listed above.

    But, this isn't an inevitability ... as long as people recognize it. Someone needs to buy our politicians, businessmen, and voters a good history book. Unfortunately, people still think the US is somehow an exception to these patterns ... but, as the evidence is the first post shows, we're clearly not. We can only become an exception to history by awareness and a willingness to act that clears away all the OMG DIS IS U.S.A. crap that is blocking our path. It's time to put a new plan into operation, not to cling to an old plan and insist that it will work someday.
     

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