So in your opinion, for Lebron to pass Kobe, he has to win another 2 titles on his own....even though Kobe has never won any on his own? Basically, you're saying that for Lebron to surpass Kobe, he'll need far superior statistics (which he has), several more MVP's (which he has), and led more teams to a championship? That's just plain stupid. Don't you realize that if Lebron accomplishes all that, then there isn't even a comparison to Kobe anymore? He'll have leapfrogged Kobe and be in the Magic/Bird discussion.
no idea, unfortunately the data only goes back to the 2001 playoffs. i would love to have numbers for everyone in history. but i feel extremely confident that jordan's percentages would be higher than kobe's. jordan is better than kobe in almost every way, i can't see why this particular situation would be any different.
You're right. Lebron 3 MVPs and 1 ring >>> Kobe. Let's look at DHoward. If he wins a a championship then he must be >>>> Hakeem, Shaq, Duncan. I mean how many DPOY awards does that guy have? And you mean to say Kobe isnt included in discussions with Bird and Magic? Yet he gets included with Jordan?
Far from it buddy. I detest the lakers and Kobe. Just calling it how i see it. Kobe has had a spectacular career and lebron is just getting started. It's ridiculous to compare the two at this point (and quite frankly unfair to your romantic crush lebron). I think lebron can pass kobe eventually but just not as of now.
How is Lebron just getting started? He's played 9 years already. We're talking about legacy. If both Kobe and Lebron retired today, how would they be ranked by fans 30 years from now? They'd look at stats, accolades, championships, and contemporaries. And based on that, Lebron had better stats, better accolades, and was considered the best player in the league for almost half his career. Kobe's only saving grace is that he was on 5 championship teams, but 3 of those will be credited to Shaq. So what's he left with? Low efficiency scoring? A handful of high scoring games? Romantic crush? Acknowledging a guy's accomplishments is considered a romantic crush? You're an idiot.
Sure I can. In 2010, Lakers beat the Celtics to win the title. In that series, Kobe shot 40% from the field. 40%. That's well below average. But thanks to having the best front court in the league, the Lakers were able to win. Do you think Kobe won that title on his own? I don't. In 2009 against the Magic, Kobe shot 43% from the field. Pau Gasol shot 60%. So once again, Kobe shot poorly, and his front court bailed him out. Once again, that's not winning on his own. In the Heat/Thunder series, Bosh shot 45%. Wade shot 43%. Lebron shot 47%. I would love for you to explain how Kobe "won on his own" but Lebron didn't.
Blah blah blah. Pippen's role on the Bulls teams was different than Kobe's, but just as vital. They don't win 1 title without him. Both were second options on those 3-peat teams. Stop tryin to give Kobe primary option credit.* Lol what. Ok, challenge. Which playoff games during the 3-peat did Kobe win it with the game on the line with Shaq doing nothing? How many games did Kobe outscore Shaq in the 4th quarter? Final 5 minute? Final 2???
You're absolutely right brah. Kobe sucks. He always has. Lebron is the King. You still haven't replied to DHoward being >>>>Hakeem or Shaq. I mean MVP and DPOY mean more than Championships right? Kevin Durant is on his way to being better than MJ because look at his scoring titles. AND Since Lebron is >>> Durant then lebron must be >>>>Jordan. You've convinced me. Lebron is the GOAT. /thread
There's a big difference between the MVP award and the DPOY. Big difference. MVP is by far the most prestigious award the league has to offer. Dwight would need to accomplish a lot to be compared to Olajuwon/Shaq. He'd have to lead his team to a few titles, win an MVP, and significantly increase his production. He'd still trail them, but he'd be in the conversation. And in regards to Durant/Jordan, Jordan was more than just a great scorer. He was also a great defender.
Well, LeBron actually has less MVPs than Jordan, less Finals MVP, has arguably never had a better season or postseason and has led his team to less rings. It's the exact opposite when comparing him to Kobe, aside from needing 1 more title and Finals MVP to match him. Same goes for Howard when comparing him to Dream. He has never won a MVP, has not led a team to a title and has yet to match Dream's best season or postseason.
Lmao. So Pau Gasol carried the Lakers both championships now? Kobe played 2nd fiddle to Gasol while Pau courageously lead the Lakers to 2 rings, according to wekko You should just log off for a week and think about how stupid this sounds
Read my post again. All I'm saying is Kobe earned all 5 rings. People say "Kobe needed Shaq", which is true. But vice versa. Shaq needed Kobe as well. They balanced each other out. Dont know how to look up that stat..You tell me
LeBron's 2009 post season was statistically the greatest of all time or one of the top three. LeBron is a better defender than Jordan. I am not saying LeBron will ever match Jordan, but some of the numbers he has put up are in the same class .
Kobe got 3 on Shaqs back and two as the leader. If lebron gets two more as "the man", I say he is passed Kobe.
This is typical strawman arguments from guys who can't answer facts. Nobody here is saying Kobe sucks, why you are defending an argument which no one is arguing against? Kobe doesn't suck and no one on this thread is saying he sucks, the rings speak for themselves. However Lebron is better than him. THis thread is about how Lebron has surpassed Kobe. Why should wekko or anyone else jump through hoops and prove that Howard is better than Shaq if Lebron is better than Kobe? Does Howard have 3 MVPs, averaged 30-10-5 and carried a team to the finals that became so bad they got the number 1 pick without him? No? Then why make the comparison as if Howard has achieved as much as Lebron? Not only that why bring Durant in the conversation? Durant, Howard and Lebron have no connection with each in history, whether or not KD is better than MJ or Howard is better than Shaq has no connection to LBJ being better than Kobe. The only reason you're bringing it up is that posters like Wekko have been tearing all your arguments apart, and all you can come back with is preconceived notions and bluster. A lot of Kobe success has to do with luck, although he was also pretty good he was lucky he got partnered up with Shaq and won 3 rings, and then he had the best frontcourt in the league during the back2back. Wekko already pointed it out, Kobe shot 40% and still won a ring. How can you shoot that low and still get a ring if you didn't have teammates who bailed you out? OTH LBJ has been winning 3 straight MVPs and is acknowledged as the league's best player for the past 3 years, and if you count it by stats he's been the best for the last 5 years. If LBJ and Kobe had exchanged places in history LBJ would have been the guy with 5 rings, Kobe wouldnt even have 1, simple as that.
On the contrary, wekko is arguing exactly that. And I never said that it wouldnt be any different if Lebron and Kobe switched places. In fact i argued it would be the same. The only place where I disagree with you is that I think Kobe would have 1 ring (Kobe would have won it against Dallas and lost to OKC) to Lebron's 5 (maybe 6 he could have beaten Detroit). I just dont think AS OF NOW that Lebron has surpassed Kobe. But obviously that is a felony offense with Lebron nutthuggers.
I'm not arguing that Kobe sucks. I'm simply saying that Lebron has surpassed him in terms of legacy. And if Lebron needed a FMVP, 3 MVP's, incredible stats, and a title to pass Kobe, then wouldn't it be foolish to argue that Kobe sucks? There's a difference between saying a player is overrated and saying he sucks. How could a Kobe-led Miami team have beaten Dallas? Dallas had just swept a Kobe-led Laker team. The worse offense is failing to provide reasons why you feel this way. You're essentially saying that 1 MVP, 2 FMVP, 5 championships, and inferior statistics is a better legacy than 3 MVP, 1 FMVP, 1 championship, and far superior statistics. And if that's truly what you think, then you're judging individual legacy by putting a lot of weight on team accomplishments. Out of curiosity, where do you put Scottie Pippen in your all-time GOAT list?
