No Deal Dodgers pull out after Carlos can't agree to trade

I completely agree with everything you said, but what about the loyalty to the franchise that paid him 100 freaking million dollars?? What about the fact that he would be HELPING the team, the city, and the fans get something back for his decaying carcass?? It's 3 months of his time, and when he came back to work on his ranch, people would respect him for the decision he made to help the team that he spent such a large part of his career in. I understand that it's a business, and he ultimately as to look out for himself, but for all the hemming and hawing players do about being mistreated, they sure don't do the fans any favors.

It's just a shame all the way around that a man who was given the gift that he has cares so little about winning. If he cares that much about his damn ranch, then he needed to retire before this year, and let the Astros take his contract off the books.

 

I wouldn't want to be traded to the Dodgers from Houston. I want to win in Houston, not LA.

Granted, I'd probably except the trade like Berkman did. Ultimately, it is what is better for the team I love.

This will be an exciting month with a lot of waiting.

 

From the standpoint of he's a family man with legitimate business interests in the Houston area, its not hard to see why most of the things you listed about LA wouldn't interest him.

What I've read in other places is that his list has two types of teams:
1) West coast teams - appears to have a substantial bias against them
2) Traditionally good teams

The second part is the stroke of pure brilliance on his part. It's the part that essentially makes his limited no-trade clause a full no trade clause. He basically said its okay to trade him to crappy teams, knowing full well those teams have no reason to trade for him. E.g. leaving Seattle off his NTC because Seattle sucks and wouldn't want him.

Thus all that's left are the good teams who would trade for him. He clearly has the advantage and is willing to exercise it. I gotta give him credit, he negotiated a brilliant NTC.

It makes trading him way more difficult because you'd have to find a team that's:
a) contending,
b) not on his list
c) would actually want him.

I think he can be reasonably comfortable knowing he won't be traded unless he consents.

 

There's a reason the no-trade clause is always a hot topic in collective bargaining agreements and free agent signings. It's a big deal. From the players standpoint, it very much de-objectifies players as mere assets that can be moved without their input.

It's also the reason the NTC should never just be a throw-in addition in contract negotiation. It was like that for many years for Astros stars and came back to bite management in the ass several times during the tear-down/rebuilding phase. See Berkman, Oswalt and C. Lee.

 

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p>Lee is well within his rights to opt for comfort. And Astros fans are just as entitled to see him as someone who doesn't care about winning.</p>&mdash; Steve Campbell (@ReformedWriter) <a href="https://twitter.com/ReformedWriter/status/219823493984944128" data-datetime="2012-07-02T16:02:59+00:00">July 2, 2012</a></blockquote>
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They are high market teams.
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p>according to reports, this is my Carlos Lee non-NTC list.Sea-SF-Oak-LAD-LAA-SD-AZ-Col-Bos-NYY-NYM-Phil-Det-CHW-CHC.</p>&mdash; Steve A. (@SteveinLC) <a href="https://twitter.com/SteveinLC/status/219461272046026752" data-datetime="2012-07-01T16:03:39+00:00">July 1, 2012</a></blockquote>
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There are 15 teams listed, but reports said there were only 14 teams.

If the list is indeed accurate, it shows that Carlos Lee is very adverse to moving West, as every team West of us (except the Rangers) is listed.

 

me thinks you don't know what the definition of "petty" is...

 

5.
showing or caused by meanness of spirit: a petty revenge.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/petty

I'd consider it an acceptable use. You certainly understand what he means.

 

I believe it is used properly, try reading it again slowly.

 

It's obviously a carefully selected list, mostly the teams that could afford a high dollar player. Notice Minnesota, Milwaukee, Pittsburgh, Tampa, KC, etc basically teams nobody wants to play for aren't on the list. Texas and St Louis are probably the only teams left where the money could fit. Shrewd list, it's really like a 27 team no trade list in effect.

 

Yes, but we could eat his contract and still trade him. Tampa/Cleveland/Atlanta/Miami/Milwaukee and a few other teams if injuries occur could be in play for his services, with him having no say in it.

 

True true. Though it definitely hurts us from a trade stand point. His NTC effectively limits our ability to leverage potential deals against one another. I'm not sure we'll see a deal better than an organizational top 10 player like Gould.

So again I say: Carlos Lee you suck

 

Disappointment

I have been reading this thread in some what disgust at the ignorance of many Astro fans.

Seriously guys, seriously?

First thing it is so easy to type this as a fan on the sidelines.

Look, put yourself in Brad Mills' shoes. It's passed the deadline and Lee declines every trade in petty, immature, I-only-care-about-my-ranch-and-millions fashion.

How can you look at your team and tell them you are interested in winning baseball games right now. Managers are supposed to put the best team on the field that the front office has given them. Managers want to win games. They live and die with the clubhouse every day.

Brad Mills would immediately lose credibility in the clubhouse as players will no longer trust that their manager really cares about not only winning games but whether or not Mills cares about the team.

Players would view this as petty. They are unionized labor. They stand together and protect their own. It may not be public but privately Mills will lose the players.

And we all see what happens when a manger loses the clubhouse (See Cecil Cooper... His teams looked lifeless. They looked like they could careless. At least this team is playing with heart and desire. They may not be good but you can tell they care...)

Get a reality check fellas. Please.

Maybe in September with the call-ups you might see less of Lee in the final, waning weeks of the season. But in the dog-days of August, if Lee is putting on an Astros' jersey, expect to see him at 1B.

 

Blah blah blah. It breaks both ways. Carlos has basically announced to everyone (teammates most importantly) that he personally doesn't care about winning. Additionally, he's got a young guy behind him who's dying to prove himself at the big league level.

I doubt many players would be falling over themselves to defend Carlos when he made such a lazy decision. I personally think Carlos disrespected the game.

 

Carlos Lee is certainly free to make any decision he wants. However asinine it is, I can respect his decision, even reluctantly. But all choices have consequences. And his? He's being viewed as, not only here with much of the Astros fanbase, but across MLB, as being a lazy, unambitious oaf. I thought he wanted one more run at a World Series ring. Guess he doesn't have the passion for the game that he once had. Guess he doesn't want it bad enough. Just yearning for his ranch at this point.

Personally, I don't hate Carlos Lee. I think he had some very nice years wearing an Astros uniform. But come on. He hasn't been to the playoffs since the beginning of this millenium. His playoff career lasted 3 games. Is this truly the way he wants to go out?

 

http://bbs.clutchfans.net/showthread.php?t=186147&highlight=carlos+retire

“I don’t know if I’m going to play after this contract,” said Lee. “I’m ready to go home.”


. . . .



“Maybe on my last year if I still have a love for the game and I still feel like I can play, I will probably come back,” Lee said. “As of right now, me and my family have plans to finish up here in Houston.”

 

And I agree with you to a certain extent...

But really, if Brad Mills goes in after the deadline and benches Carlos Lee... players will get mad. That is a petty reason to bench a player. And you're hurting Lee's chances of getting another job next season if he is bench and players will recognize that and if the manager is willing to do that to the big time money dude, imagine when he'd to to the rookies if they do something he doesn't like... its all about perception. Mills cannot bench Lee. He just can't.

 

Sure he can. The guy sucks this year. He has 5 HRs and a mid 0.700 OPS - and declining. Brett Wallace very well could be better than him. What does it say to the team when the manager refuses to play the younger, more interested guy because the other guy makes a lot of money?

 

Are you seriously suggesting that all of the young players who are getting an opportunity to play because the Astros jettisoned veterans who would help them win more games would get mad if Lee was benched to make room for another young player?

 

C-Los has made it abundantly clear that he's not concerned with signing another contract. That is not at all an issue here.

If money was in his end game, he would have accepted the trade to LA. Nothing would have pumped up his value more than playing well in a playoff race. That's been shown time and time again, and he knows it as well as anyone else. Furthermore, I'm betting no front office is willing to sign a player who so casually *****s his own team.

As was stated earlier in the thread: once the trade deadline passes, Carlos Lee literally has no value to the team. His contract is a sunk cost and that time is much better utilized getting a better evaluation of Brett Wallace. ML at-bats are precious and if the team can get Wallace an extra 100-200 ML at-bats in a no pressure environment then his development will be much better off. It was the same way with Altuve, Martinez, and Paredes last year, only they didn't have a fat guy blocking their position.