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"Moderate Indonesia": Two Evangelists beaten and arrested

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by AroundTheWorld, Jun 22, 2012.

  1. AroundTheWorld

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    Indonesia: Two Evangelists Arrested and Beaten

    Two evangelists were arrested and beaten after meeting with a Muslim woman on Indonesia's Sumatra island, Voice of the Martyrs reports. The evangelists, Roy and Ribur, were accused of coercing the woman, from a Muslim-majority area, to be baptized. The pair had met with her previously and asked her to join their church, then were invited to her home on May 28 for further discussion. But when the evangelists mentioned Jesus Christ, the woman appeared confused and went outside to talk to her neighbor. She eventually went to the village head to report that there were Christians in the village. Roy and Ribur were brought before the village head, who confiscated their bags containing gospel tracts, a list of new believers and a water bottle that was believed to be used for baptisms. News of the "forced baptism" quickly spread, and a mob that had gathered outside the village leader's office began to beat Roy and Ribur. Police intervened and arrested the two evangelists.

    http://www.religiontoday.com/blog/indonesia-two-evangelists-arrested-and-beaten.html
     
  2. DaDakota

    DaDakota Balance wins
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    Religion of peace - don't ya know.

    DD
     
  3. AMS

    AMS Member

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    DD/ATW Circle Jerk.
     
    1 person likes this.
  4. DaDakota

    DaDakota Balance wins
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    Messenger post, nothing to do with message - lest he begin to think for himself.

    DD
     
  5. Dairy Ashford

    Dairy Ashford Member

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    The two worst traits of each faith, pushiness and hypersensitivity, on full display. The violence is more based on numerical advantage, cultural and economic provincialism than any dogma. Shriners need to chill and the Templars need to just learn to **** off and stop selling every once in a while.
     
  6. IzakDavid13

    IzakDavid13 Member

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    The problem is not the Muslim people, it is the Islamic ideology that they are taught.
     
  7. aussiejack

    aussiejack Member

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    Yeah we have this big problem here in Australia with Muslims. The majority of them are hard working, funny and approachable people. We can't tolerate that crap. Send them back to where they come from.

    I mean, look at our white race. It's a shining glory of human kindness. We don't have bad eggs in our race: Jeffrey Dahmer, Jerry Sandusky, Charles Manson, Timothy McVeigh, David Letterman....

    Geez guys, isn't it so clear that Muslims are the only evil people in the world?
     
    1 person likes this.
  8. Mathloom

    Mathloom Shameless Optimist

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    Islam isn't a race, and it's not comparable to a race.
     
  9. aussiejack

    aussiejack Member

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    You're 100% right but somehow I think you missed the point of my post.
     
  10. Hydhypedplaya

    Hydhypedplaya Member

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    Yeah, let's all trust a blog post that doesn't reference any actual news article of what happened.

    Or we can ask ATW why he hasn't moved to Indonesia to improve the living conditions for those persecuted there. After all, his concern for them is what he's really trying to prove here.

    Perhaps he believes that 'informing' a forum of basketball fans will help those persecuted people of Indonesia.
     
  11. Dairy Ashford

    Dairy Ashford Member

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    You alleged discontent in your home country with people of a certain religion; then you tried to indict their hypocrisy by showing poor examples of outlying behavior from the wrong category of people in the wrong country.
     
  12. krnxsnoopy

    krnxsnoopy Member

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    These seems awfully common in certain parts of the world.
     
  13. AroundTheWorld

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    Is the New York Times a source you would trust more?

    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/22/opinion/indonesias-rising-religious-intolerance.html

    Indonesia's Rising Religious Intolerance


    JAKARTA — Just a few days after Lady Gaga’s concert in Indonesia was canceled after protests by Islamic groups, I flew 1,370 kilometers from Jakarta to Padang, West Sumatra, and drove a further 130 kilometers, a four-hour journey along rough, winding roads, to Sijunjung, to visit an Indonesian atheist jailed for his beliefs.

    Alex Aan, a 30-year-old civil servant, is a gentle, soft-spoken, highly intelligent young man who simply gave up his belief in God when he saw poverty, war, famine and disaster around the world.

    He faces the possibility of up to six years in prison, charged with blasphemy, disseminating hatred and spreading atheism. Radical Muslims came to his office, beat him up, and called the police after reading about his views on Facebook.

    Alex is the first atheist in Indonesia to be jailed for his belief, but his case is symptomatic of a wider increase in religious intolerance in the world’s largest Muslim-majority nation. The previous Sunday, I joined a small church in Bekasi, a suburb of Jakarta, for a service, but found the street blocked by a noisy, angry mob and a few police.

    The church, known as HKBP Filadelfia, was forced to close a few years ago, even though the local courts had given permission to open. The local mayor, under pressure from Islamists, has declared a “zero church” policy in his area. For the past two months, the congregation has been blocked from worshiping in the street outside their building, and the atmosphere has grown increasingly tense.

    When I was there, I felt it could have erupted into violence at any moment. The radicals in control of the loudspeaker shouted “Christians, get out,” and “anyone not wearing a jilbab (headscarf), catch them, hunt them down.”

    World leaders and commentators like to point to Indonesia as a model of tolerance and pluralism and an example of how Islam and democracy are not incompatible. To a certain extent they are right — Indonesia does have a great tradition of pluralism, a generally tolerant brand of Islam, and has made a remarkable transition from authoritarianism to democracy.

    The majority of Indonesian Muslims remain moderate, and are appalled by rising intolerance. But three factors are undermining religious freedom: the silence and passivity of the majority, growing radicalization, and the weakness of the government at every level.

    It is not only religious tolerance and freedom that is under threat, but also the rule of law. Another church, GKI Yasmin in Bogor, an hour from Jakarta, has approval from the Supreme Court to open, but the local mayor, again under pressure from Islamists, refuses to allow it. A district mayor is in defiance of the Supreme Court, and no one says a word.

    The Ahmadiyya Muslim community is perhaps the most persecuted. Violent attacks against this group, whose beliefs are considered heretical by many conservative Muslims, have increased significantly. Last year I met victims of one of the worst outbreaks of violence, an attack on Ahmadis in Cikeusik on Feb. 6, 2011, which left three people dead.

    One man described how he was stripped naked and beaten severely and a machete was held at his throat. He was dragged through the village and dumped in a truck like a corpse. Another man fled into a fast-flowing river, pursued by attackers throwing rocks and shouting “kill, kill, kill.”

    He hid in a bush, dripping wet and extremely cold, for four hours. A third suffered a broken jaw, while a fourth, pursued by men armed with sickles, machetes and spears, was detained by the police for three days, treated as a suspect not a victim.

    Of the 1,500-strong mob that attacked 21 Ahmadis, only 12 people were arrested and prosecuted, according to The New York Times. Their sentences were between three and six months.

    These are by no means the only cases. Earlier this month, radicals attacked a lecture by the liberal Canadian Muslim Irshad Manji. In Aceh, 17 churches were forced to close.

    I met other church pastors who talked about their churches being closed, and a woman, the Rev. Luspida, who was beaten while one of her congregation was knifed. “We have no religious freedom here anymore,” she told me. “We need to give a message to the president. He cannot say the situation is good here. We need to remind him our situation is very critical, and he should do something for the future of Indonesia. Support from outside is very important to pressure the president.”

    As Indonesia faces its Universal Periodic Review by the United Nations Human Rights Council — a process applied periodically to every member state — serious questions should be asked about the country’s future. If action is not taken, Indonesia’s accomplishments over the past decade could be jeopardized.

    It is not too late. There are some excellent Indonesian Muslim organizations such as the Wahid Institute, founded by former President Abdurrahman Wahid, and the Maarif Institute, whose work should be supported.

    If President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono acted, he would have the silent majority behind him. His government made progress in tackling terrorism, but it should not shirk its responsibility to fight the ideology that underpins terror. His government should stop giving in to the radicals and start protecting the rights of all Indonesians to choose, change and practice their religion, as provided in Article 18 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.

    I went to meet Alex Aan because as a Christian, I believe in the freedom of religion, which includes the right not to believe.

    ----------------------

    The truth is that even in so-called "moderate" Muslim countries, intolerance toward other religions runs rampant, and the roots are in the all-encompassing Islamic ideology itself.
     
  14. Mathloom

    Mathloom Shameless Optimist

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    I did get the point, and agree with it.

    But it's important that race is irrelevant to behavior, but ideological beliefs are extremely relevant to behavior. Some ideologies are more peaceful than others, but no race is more/less peaceful than another. The way the media communicates information, they tend to blur the lines between ideology and race - for example, Iranians are Muslim and mostly "White", but we would never guess that based on the huge majority of images/videos presented to us. The information is irrelevant to understanding the behavior of Iranians, but it is extremely important in understanding the behavior of media channels, and also the consumers of media. It's a dangerous line to blur.

    Take the example of the title of this thread, where ideology and race are mixed and matched to engineer a certain perception (which appears to have affected you too), when in reality the topic is uncontroversial. They shouldn't have been beaten, and the perpetrators should face justice - no one disagrees. But the inference created by the thread title sparks a r****ded comparative debate. I think the only perfectly comparable groups are Christians and Hindus, and they have been equally violent when in the same circumstances as Muslims are today.

    I thought you made a good point, and didn't want it to get lost by falling into the same boat as the OP's fundamentally flawed beliefs.
     
  15. AroundTheWorld

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    I agree with both these statements, the rest of your post is crap.

    These statements actually underscore that my observations are not flawed. This particular ideology has it in its core to incite violence.
     
  16. aussiejack

    aussiejack Member

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    Call of Duty incites violence in young children. Why aren't you attacking that?
     
  17. Honey Bear

    Honey Bear Member

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    Call of Duty is not an ideology. It's not meant to be taken seriously - just a game that's to be played for fun. If Islam could be thought of in a similar manner - it would be better for all of the Muslims.

    I can show you a graph involving real life deaths involving Call of Duty compared to Islam.

    People need to liberate themselves and develop personalities instead of using religion as a crutch. Be spiritual, inward looking beings. Not zombies looking to be controlled by a mass manipulator. The main issue is the manipulation of this ideology in area's of low socio economic activity - but since we aren't going to eradicate poverty anytime soon - it's best to eradicate an outdated philosophy and allow common sense to take over.
     
  18. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Member

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    So you mean anything that has supernatural beings in its belief system?
     
  19. Major

    Major Member

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    How do you propose to do this? You're more likely to eradicate poverty than religion - at least there's a theoretical method for doing that.
     
  20. Hydhypedplaya

    Hydhypedplaya Member

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    You mean an OpEd from the NYT? Apparently you don't know what objectivity means. Not to mention the story you posted initially is not the same as the one you just posted.

    Oh well, keep posting opinion pieces and call them "news".
     

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