Give me a moment . . . *gulp* One more. . . *gulp* Haterage is good . . . tastie NOW Lebron was something like like 56 out of 76 in the paint 7 of 36 outside of it He went to the free throw line at least 4 times a game If I posted the same thing about Shaq People would be b****ing about him BULLING his way to the basket LeBron does the same thing . . .except from the elbow. He knows he will get the basket or the foul everytime . I'm not saying he doesnt have a shot but it is inconsistant and like Shaq he decided. . . if it ain't broke don't fix it. As long as games are reffed in such a way that stepping him front of him is a Flagrant foul he will win alot of championship Rocket TIES: Lebron and Wade are alot better than Francis and Cat but the game plan was the basically the same DRIVE AND DISH Beat your guy . . get to the rack . . Collapse the defense . . . hit the open 3 pt shooters [they have better three point shooters as well] More ball movement than the old rockets but the concept is the same . . . [Probably what francis and cat would have looked like under adelman instead of Rudy or JVG] Rocket River one more sip . . *gulp*
I love Lebron's game, but Kobe has done it 5 times man. 5 > 1, so give it time. Its hard to get one, Kobe has 5 so no.
How are educated people still using this argument? You really don't think Lebron would've won 5 if he was under the exact same circumstances as Kobe in terms of talent around him?
You can say that about alot of folx though Iverson Tmac DRose Etc Etc Etc So your argument is just as weak Rocket River
Bird said Lebron is a better player, but chose to play with Kobe b/c he's a "winner." That was during the season.
Dude, at the end of the day you circumstances are what they are. You can't start the if scenarios because they are far too subjective. What if Bron played with Shaq? What if Bron played with Pippen? What if Bron played with Kareem and Worthy? What if Bron played Mchale and Parish? What Tracy and Yao never got hurt? After a while it just gets silly. Lebron has had great career but let him earn his place in history as he is more than capable.
LeBron. He's had 3 seasons that were already better than Kobe's best statistical season (the year he took eleventy billion shots post Shaq/pre Gasol and the Lakers sucked). LeBron's all around game is simply better tahn Kobe's pure scoring.
That's fair, but I despise the line of logic that "X player will only surpass Y player if he has the same number of championships". That's just dumb. It's a team sport, no one does it alone. I would still believe Jordan to be the greatest player of all-time if he only won one championship and played for a crappy team his entire career.
Let me be the first to say what many Kobe fans have been saying for years. LeBron is NOT the next MJ. He is the FIRST LeBron.
People who judge ONLY by championships is stupid. Russell has 11 rings, but the majority has MJ as the GOAT, and he has 5 LESS. To become the GOAT or enter the conversation, you have to take into account the "individual" accolades (MVPs, DPOY, all-nba 1st team and defense, how many years considered as the greatest of your generation) AND "team" accolades (championships). Right now, Lebron has MORE individual accolades than Kobe already, and he still has AT LEAST 4 more years like this left. He has 2 more MVPs (probably will end up with 5 or 6). And he will easily surpass Kobes on all-nbas. And he will win a DPOY. Lebron will BLOW Kobe away in terms of individual accolades when he retires. This is a no-contest. Now let's talk about rings. Does he need to get 5 or 6 to surpass Kobe's legacy? No. He just needs 2-3. Kobe was the "main" guy in 2 championship runs with 2 FMVPs. If he gets one more FMVP, he will surpass Kobe's legacy. If he gets 3, he'll leave Kobe in the dust. MJ is the GOAT to most for a reason. It's his combination of his individual work + winning. His 6 MVPs/FMVPs. His DPOY as a perimeter player. His decade-long run as the best player in the league. His never losing in the Finals. And so on. That's why it will be so hard for anyone to surpass MJ b/c his body of work is too decorated.
finals mvp's hold more weight than rings. lebron doesn't need 4 more rings to surpass kobe. 1 or 2 more and he's over him easily
So rings don't matter but Finals MVPs do? Gotchya! The only way to get a Finals MVP 99% of the time is to WIN THE TITLE. You're prisoner of the moment. Father Time is undefeated and is whipping Kobe's ass right now. I like Lebron, but to minimize what Kobe has done because Lebron has won once is ridiculous.
His titles in 2002 & 2010 are questionable, and his finals appearance in 2008. I agree with everyone who said Lebron has been better than Kobe for years. I think Lebron has been since 2007, and it's not just because Lebron went to the finals. As an all-time player, Kobe is better. I don't solely judge on titles. When Lebron has 2 or 3 titles, and depending on the role he plays in them, I'd probably rank him over Kobe as an all-time player. I don't think Kobe is greatest player since Michael Jordan, nor would I put Kobe in the top 10 ever. The difference with Lebron having Wade & Bosh is that Lebron & Wade are too similar and only seem to benefit each other on the fast break. Bosh isn't as versatile as Pau Gasol. Miami didn't have the physicality nor rebounding on the inside that the Lakers did. They still don't, IMO. Artest could average between 15 to 19 points had he not been a 4th/5th option on the Lakers. The media glossed over how good Artest was prior to joining the Lakers, and how playing behind other all-stars in a new system is why his scoring dropped. Artest remained a great defender while Kobe got the defensive team selections. It was portrayed like Artest was coasting off Phil & Kobe. Bynum was the 3rd best center when Yao was still around. Odom was the most versatile player in recent years next to Lebron James. Vladimir Radmanovic, Trevor Ariza, Matt Barnes & Steve Blake were good on their former teams despite not being stars. At times, Matt Barnes was a 3rd option. Gasol was arguably better than Kobe from 2009-2010. I thought Kobe deserved the finals MVP in 2009, and still do. It became closer after I saw Gasol's shooting percentage and how many shots Kobe took in that series. Gasol averaged as many assists in the 2010 finals despite not dominating the ball as much. Gasol also had tougher match ups in the finals. Payton & Malone were past their primes, but they had great seasons prior to joining the Lakers. Payton was an all-star the previous season. Malone came off of a season close to his last all star season, averaging 20/7/4. Kobe had a decent roster the year Shaq was traded. I agree they had a weak roster the 2 years that followed, I used to defend Kobe on that because Shaq had much more help in Miami. Kobe has been on loaded teams for most of his career, especially compared to other great players. He started with a team that were winning 50 or so games. He started with all stars, established role players, players that won titles or made the finals (Shaq, Glen Rice, Ron Harper, Rick Fox, Robert Horry, Nick Van Exel, Eddie Jones, Elden Campbell, Derek Harper, AC Green, Brian Shaw). Aside from his individual accomplishments, I rank Michael Jordan so highly because of his first 3 titles. He had a young unproven team aside from 3 role players, Pippen developed into an all-star. Excluding Lamar Odom & Caron Butler, Kobe had OK players around him, they just needed time to develop. I felt the same way about Iverson leaving Philly before giving their young players time to develop. The credit Lebron is getting is similar to Dirk last year, they always had great playoff numbers, it was either forgotten or glossed over. No offense to Larry Bird, but I don't give too much credibility to what former/current players and front office guys say. I believe what Larry said, it's just that people these days give popular answers or say what's expected. When they don't do that, the media jumps on it. When Lebron lost in the playoffs, guys like Kenny Smith kept saying Kobe was the best because his team went further. I didn't think Kobe was a top 3 player in the league since 2009. Kobe didn't have to be great for the Lakers to succeed, nor did the offense have to run through him. Lebron, CP3, Dirk and Dwight had to be great for their teams to succeed. I loved listening to Charles Barkley until he proclaimed Kobe a top 5 player ever. Someone already mentioned that players usually are not the best analysts or judges of talent. Some players or guys in the front office will talk yet not put their name to it. Some guys will say things out of modesty or to bandwagon.
