If America didn't have non-stop drone attacks Karachi would be one of the most peaceful cities on the earth.
Beat is an interesting word. The type of "beating" that is allowed is as an extreme last resort and done so only after the man has talked to the wife in a reasonable manner and avoided the bed. The "beating" should not leave a mark on any part of the wife's body nor be on her sensitive parts. So no bruises, red marks, or significant pain. Anything that leaves a mark or breaks the skin is forbidden. Since Muslims are supposed to live according to the rules and regulations designated by the religion, these 3 steps are the measures a man can take to save a marriage. You may think that beating to save a marriage doesn't make sense, but it isn't as blunt as that. If the wife has been participating in acts that are forbidden by the religion, those are the measures a man can take in order to let his wife know that she isn't following the religious principles in order to save her from God's punishment later on. The wife can ask for a divorce if she wants and it will be granted. It's similar to how a government cares for its citizens but is allowed to use some force to ensure everyone is following the law. I know it is hard to comprehend for people who don't believe in Islam. A lot of the Quranic understanding comes from studying the context and the meaning behind the revelation of some verses instead of reading it literally and forming quick conclusions.
BrownBeast99, I think you're a great guy from the posts I have seen, but I think defending that outdated and crazy wife beating permission from the Quran really doesn't make sense. I'd say that at the time that was written, it meant well because it was probably an improvement from the practice at the time. Mankind has fortunately, in most civilized countries, come a step further than that already. There is NEVER a reason to beat your wife, "extreme last resort", yada yada etc. or not.
I appreciate your answer Brown, but what you typed is one of the reasons I could never believe. I just don't believe God would say that - and while I understand people needing something to believe in, and wanting to live a better life and religion can be good for that. I personally believe it is all made up by man, to serve his own needs at the time it was written. DD
Long story short: The Quran never says to beat your wife. When you read/study the Qur'an something that one has to keep in mind is that it was revealed in Arabic, a very rich language where a single word can mean a different thing if said in a different way and such. Every translation of the Quran is not a 100% translation but just an attempt at translating the meaning of the Qur'an. You have to be an Arabic linguist to really figure out how the word is beating used. Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has given the one more (strength) than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient, and guard in (the husband's) absence what Allah would have them guard. As to those women on whose part you fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (Next), refuse to share their beds with them, (And last) beat them (lightly); but if they return to obedience, seek not against them Means (of annoyance): For Allah is Most High, great (above you all).(Quran Chapter 4 Verse 34-35) The Arabic word used in the Quranic Verse 4:34 above is "idribuhunna", which is derived from the word "darabah" which can mean "beat lightly" or what would be a better crossover word to English "percuss" or "nudge". Nothing in a hurtful way. The thing with all of the Arabic words derived from the word "darabah" is that they don't necessarily mean "hit". The word "idribuhunna" for instance, could very well mean to "leave" them. It is exactly like telling someone to "beat it" or "drop it" in English. This way of using "darabah" is even done in the Qu'ran in other verses like in Verse 14:24 where God (Allah) says "Seest thou not how Allah sets (daraba) forth a parable? -- A goodly Word Like a goodly tree, Whose root is firmly fixed, And its branches (reach) To the heavens". "daraba" here meant "give an example". If I say in Arabic "daraba laka mathal", it means "give you an example". Allah Almighty also used the word "darabtum", which is derived from the word "daraba" in Noble Verse 4:94, which mean to "go abroad" for the sake of God Almighty. So "daraba" literally means "percuss (lightly nudge)", or "go abroad", "desert" or "leave" or "give" but not in the sense to give something by hand, but rather to give or provide an example. Early translators have erroneous translated the word "dharabah" into English translations of the Qur'an as "beat". Again taking into account that Arabic is a rich language where the same word can mean totally different things in different situations. This verse is actually the only verse in the entire Qur'an that even brings this up. There isn't any other indication of violence or way of reprimanding a woman with beatings in anyway. So all in all, using the most common language to paraphrase this verse is basically. "If your wife is deliberately getting out of line/stirring things up/causing a rift in the marriage by being disobedient or hostile...(1) tell them to quit it, (2)refuse to lay in bed together with her, sleep with her and lastly (3) leave or separate from her (temporarily)." Doesn't sound much different from a normal marriage where there's an argument that happens. You get mad, you probably don't sleep together in bed at night because of it and if worse comes to worst, you leave or tell them to leave so you nerves/emotions and such cool off. Violence or any indication of physical force never comes to come into the mix.
It says it is OK to beat your wife in certain circumstances, which taken in context to the time it was written probably makes sense culturally. But that and many other things when taken in proper context just make it seem absurd to me that God had anything to do with writing or inspiring it. I just believe it was a charismatic man - much like has happened throughout the ages with others claiming to be talking to God. I don't think God has talked to anyone. DD
BTW - look how much you had to write to try to explain why it was still right....I mean come on...... LOL. DD
Hardy har har guys. Did you even read my post? I did not explain that it was right or justifiable to beat anyone. My whole explanation was to say that The Qur'an NEVER said it was okay to hit your wife, not even as a last resort and in the context of the verse, the word would most likely mean to "leave or separate" as a last resort. And it's fine if you don't believe God has talked to anyone or not and in the case of Islam and the Prophet Muhammad(pbuh), God didn't necessarily directly talk to him either when the Qur'an was revealed. The belief is that the Angel Gabriel served as the middle man and revealed the verses to the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)--who, mind you, was illiterate so he himself didn't write a thing--and he memorized the verses and repeated it to the Arab citizens at the time, and scribes ended up jotting down what he recited, with the Prophet(pbuh) overseeing the scribes to make sure they didnt flub or make a mistake and wrote the verses exactly how he recited them.
That's what a lot of critics of Islam believe and use to refute Muhammad(pbuh) as a prophet and such. The only thing I can say to that is in the Qur'an Satan is talked about a great deal and all of it is in the negative way and informs readers and listeners of his evil intentions. One particular verse explicitly says that the greatest enemy of Muslims and in essence Mankind as a whole is Satan, whose sole purpose is to mislead and corrupt as many people as he can so they can join him in Hell. Also the Qur'an talks extensively about Satan's origin: --Satan's name is Iblis. He was not an angel made from light, nor a human made from clay but a whole separate being made from smokeless fire called Jinn. He like angels can't be seen by Humans, has certain supernatural abilities but whereas Angels have no free will because they instantly obey the commands of God without question, Satan has free choice like Humans to obey or disobey or rebel. He was not a fallen angel but did obey and worship God until God created humans, the first being Adam (pbuh) --Satan showed arrogance when God created Adam and told Angels and Jinn to prostrate before his creation. Everyone did except Satan. He thought he was superior to humans and refused to bow down and show his respects. This got him cast out of Paradise and thats when he vowed to be the direct enemy of Humans, and subsequently led him to deceive Adam and Eve and get them kicked out of Paradise/Garden of Eden and sent to dwell on earth. -Satan in Arabic is "Shaitan" and the basically means "a disobedient/evil Jinn" because Jinns being a creation separate from Humans and living on earth can either live righteous lives or disobedient lives. Ones that follow Iblis as their leader are in the category of "shaitan" or Satan. --In the end the Quran states that the Satan that follow Iblis are out to corrupt humans, lead them astray, whisper in their ears to generate ill thoughts or feelings with the intent to provoke humans to do bad things and that humans should seek protection from God to detract/deter Shaitan's onslaught of trying to break down the moral character of humans. The Qur'an then goes on about ways to deter Satan and his whispers and influences in your life. After all that, If Satan tricked Muhammad(pbuh) and was actually the one speaking with him and revealed the Qur'an to him, why would he mention himself in such detail and in such a negative way and reveal that he is a direct enemy of humans with the intent to lead them so astray that their fate in the next life would be Hell. Why would he say that people should seek protection of God from him and then on top of that reveal ways of how they can avoid and repel him? If Satan did trick Muhammad, wouldn't he say that he's good, here to help, they should listen to and worship Satan or something? Why would he implore in Quranic verse to promote good actions and deeds and forbid evil when HE IS EVIL. It's like a villain giving a Superhero exact strategy of how to defeat him. A video game coming with a published walkthrough of how to beat the game. A puzzle coming with exact instructions of how to put it together. It's preposterous. Satan would be an idiot to do that. And again the same thing could be said about Jesus(pbuh), was he tricked by Satan? Was that Satan tricking Moses(pbuh) speaking from the burning bush? It was burning wasn't it? Was Abraham(pbuh) tricked by Satan? The same could be said about all those religious figures and the same criteria would fall into place.
Whatever bro. And since your comment was directed towards me it'd be (pbuy) Peace be upon you. Same to you.
Some translations of the Quran suggest something like this. However, in accordance with the idea of an omni-benevolent deity, I like to use this translation instead: Does the Quran Permit Men to Beat Their Wives? A famous (and controversial) passage in the Quran has brought about a great deal of misunderstanding about Islam. Pickthal's translation: Men are in charge of women, because Allah hath made the one of them to excel the other, and because they spend of their property (for their support of women). So good women are the obedient, guarding in secret that which Allah hath guarded. As for those from whom ye fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart, and scourge them. Then, if they obey you, seek not a way against them. Lo! Allah is ever High Exalted, Great. Edip Yuksel's translation: Men take care of women – since God has endowed some with qualities that differ in degree, and since men spend from their financial resources. The righteous women are obedient (to God), and during the absence (of their husbands), they honor them according to God's commandment, even when alone in their privacy. As for those women who bring about in you a fear of disloyalty, you shall first advise them. Then (if they continue), you may desert them in bed. Then, (if they continue), you may leave them. If they obey you, (however,) then you must not do any wrong against them. God is Most High, Supreme. – 4:34 See the difference? No beating allowed. It does NOT say it is okay to beat your wife. Granted some translators and other people believe that, but that's the problem with religion and its interpretation. One of the many problems in societies that are dominated by Islamic beliefs, is little respect for freedom of expression. A consequence of that is hypersensitivity to any criticism of Islam. I see this quality in my distant cousins and acquaintances very frequently, and most of them would not agree with Edip's translation for fear of something being wrong with the popular (sexist) ones. Also, I disagree with FranchiseBlade. A large percentage of terrorism is because of Islam; I think this has something to do with its power to focus on an afterlife rather than despair because of terrible 'quality of life' on Earth. I can understand an athiest's belief that so much being left to interpretation would not be a product of an omniscient god, but that is assuming that Allah/God doesn't want people to think critically and try to get along with one another regardless of religious differences. Life is a test of maintaining oneness with each other without losing one's humanity. Religion could take a backseat in Islamic countries without fear of society falling apart. The Quran says morality comes from within and is born with us, not externally from a book or a person.
