We need schools dedicated to people who just want to get a job, but who aren't all that interested in the foundations of our civilization, our history, or much of anything other than making and spending money.
For the record I didn't really care for reading fiction in High School because of English class. I didn't care for Shakespeare that much, and certainly not any of the other stuff I read. But one book changed it for me at least a little bit. In 10th grade we were required to read A Separate Peace by John Knowles. I absolutely loved that book, and it changed my outlook on myself. It also showed me that there might be some literature that I liked to read. I read the Great Gatsby a year later, and enjoyed that, but liked it less because of the English class requirement/analyzing part of it. So I definitely sympathize with not liking that part. But if I wasn't forced to read A Separate Peace, I would have never known that I might like literature, or classics at all. Once I got to college, I went back and read all of the classics that folks read, and are supposed to be required. I did that on my own, but my college professors actually knew all about the literature we read in English unlike my high school English teachers who just seemed to be doing their job. So while the analyzing and forced reading of certain books certainly killed my enjoyment of reading for quite a while, I don't think I'd ever have become the avid reader and lover of fiction that I am today without it. I think having college level professors in high school to go over the stuff would have helped, but in the end it worked out.
Anyone know where I can find a list of all those high school and some college required readings I never paid attention to? It'd be nice to go back and revisit those.
school is just meant to introduce you to ways of critically thinking, so you can do it to a certain extent on your own. it's not meant to be fun. it's not like they make you read THAT much anyway. i rarely fully read any assigned novel i got in english, but i did read books that actually interested me on my own. when it comes to novels that i care about, i like to know more about the author to know where he is coming from and trying to understand what message he is trying to portray in his writing. i agree that having to read as work in an english class isn't fun, but it's a sacrifice so you can fully appreciate and enjoy the work you read when you are done with school. otherwise you might as well just stick to movies and tv.
I love reading but I hated English class. Like music, writing is an art and everybody who reads a given piece of literature has a right to form their own opinions about it. A professor should not be able to pound into your heads about what Shakespeare meant when the book was written 200 years ago. If I derived an opinion about what was being said in Hamlet then it is just as valid as a guy that is teaching the class. Its art and everybody sees it differently. The way they teach is the problem here. Just because a critic did not like a movie does not mean I am not going to like it. Also in high school they find these boring crap that they expect you to read. Hemingway has at least four books that are way more entertaining than Old man and the Sea but most of the time people are forced to to read the most boring novel that he has written. Also they had this thing called the MLA . O my god does it really matter that there is a period instead of a semi colon when quoting from a book versus a magazine? anal and stupid. Let people read what they want, teach language constructs and grammar only.
Just as an aside, my girlfriend wanted us to both read "Fifty Shades of Grey" because of all the attention it's been getting. I'm not even kidding when I say that I couldn't even make it past the first few pages. It is, without a doubt, one of the worst-written pieces of crap I've ever had the displeasure of reading. It made "Twilight" look like Dostoyevsky. It's like a really bad 8th grade writing project masquerading as kinky literature. How this garbage got published, let alone garnered the attention it is receiving, is totally beyond me.
Vocational schools should be a viable and respectable option. It will allow those who just want employment skills to get those skills, and it will keep people who aren't interested in anything other than employment from clogging up university classrooms. Unfortunately, universities are more money hungry than ever right now.
The thing is though. English is so subjective. Every time I'm given an analysis assignment or something of that sorts, it seems ridiculous that we are expected to interpret all these vague symbols, motifs, themes, etc similarly. To tell someone they are wrong for analyzing something and interpreting it in their own terms? Idiotic. I'll stick with History as my favorite subject.
I'm not going to lie. Getting a grade for playing basketball is second only to getting paid to pay basketball. :grin:
We get it, he contributed things to theatre. The five act play, plot twists, tragedies, comedies, etc. I think we should learn about him, and maybe receive about a quiz over his contributions to theatre and his works. Reading them should be optional. The worst was the Odyssey (written by Homer), Macbeth and Rome & Juliet.
We are, to a large degree, an English speaking country, so I have to ask, what's wrong with English besides having to put up with people who do a lousy job of writing it, speaking it, and reading it?
I agree about the literary critics, but that's part of the fun imo. Sure its made up meaning but I enjoy extracting stuff out of nothing and trying to prove it. I am just finishing up my thesis on 17th century Chinese short story literature. There is very little research done on my topic and the stories are so crazy and all over the place that I can pretty much write what I want and develop some interesting and over the top arguments.
What sucked the fun out of reading? Schools forcing you to read books or writing reports, or both? Your pronoun "it" doesn't make that clear. This must be that AP English education you have. Do you really "take" English, or do you "study" it? When you say "all these theories," you should have either kept the description to just "theories" since "all these" doesn't really add much to the overall message you wish to convey. I take it that what you wanted to say is to draw out the silliness of the theories, in which case, the more appropriate construction would be to add a clearer modifier, something such as: "all these hair-brain theories. After reading the author's take on his own work, I can only conclude that the majority of critics pull opinions straight outta their asses." By the way, had you wrote that "pulling opinions from asses" and supported your findings by direct quotes from the author, you would have gotten a big laugh, and most likely a good grade on your paper. Furthermore, I see no reason that any English teacher would have a problem with it. Most English teachers crave a solid, creative, point of view. Why would you think otherwise?
As I read through this thread, I'm starting to realize that the problem isn't whether or not English as a study sucks, but how the last generation failed in preventing certain people from procreating. WITH ALL DUE RESPECT.
I was an incredibly lazy student who hated forced reading when I could get Cliff's Notes (for you Facebook youngins, it's those cheap yellow striped books that have been handled and passed over more than Paris Hilton) and cross reference them with online summaries and reading the first and last pages of each chapter. That said, I loved Twain and still remember A Separate Peace, Brave New World, Animal Farm, Gatsby. All books I was "forced" to read, where I jumped in in the middle, loved it enough to read the beginning again. I also liked it when the English teachers spoon feeding me context of an era(s) 100 plus years beyond my existence, usually with my head down in a half coma-tose state. Now that I'm old enough to have to think things for myself (ideally), I miss those times where you get all these extra things you'll miss from "just reading" the classics. An ad hoc "director's cut" if you will. Seriously Air Langhli, you seem to be more of a sciences kind of cat, but don't undercut the humanities. Even if it was the most mega boringest 3+ years of your life, believe it or not, they had to condense a **** load of things. While the thrill of an all-nighter to extract 5 pages out of nowhere in what should've taken 3 weeks might cheapen your idea of the major, but that's not the point, right? Just because you have shown some glimmer of intelligence to transcribe mental cow pies into mediocre to great academic standing doesn't mean you're exercising your potential for sustained critical thinking. When you read something, there is no on and off switch like quick arithmetic. Your brain is always on, sometimes even long after you finish the book. That is your point, spoon-fed and essay-stealable. For you. Plus if you're like me, maybe those forced reads were 80% of the classical works you've read in your lifetime, which is pretty sad, but patronizing focus isn't on me here. Google is at our fingertips. What separates us from a google search/glorified Jeopardy contestant? Finally, if you're into any professional field that requires leadership or innovation, a broader worldview might be an edge you'll appreciate.
I am fairly certain he is discussing English Literature as opposed to grammar, spelling, punctuation, etc.
I think Shakespeare is a genius, an artist. I don't think Shakespeare is so much of a genius that school reading should be do disproportionately assigned to his works. Some people don't care about his art, and some don't care about art at all. Scientists, mathematicians, engineeers, etc. Everyone needs to be exposed to everything equally, and they can later decide which direction they want to go. IMO any deviation from a completely diversified curriculum is simply cheating those whose natural skills and personal goals are not aligned with the goals of the school, or the school owner, or the regulator or the economy or the country.
English Literature will not only introduce you to authors and their works, it measures comprehension skills. Also, it shows different styles of writing and the different ways those styles speak to you. It shows you what is and isn't effective for a particular audience. To that end, that helps in jobs and further schooling in which any sort of written communication is important. While some of these tasks may not be specifically taught, you may learn through osmosis.
