Duncan is great and deserves to be in the HOF without a doubt, but Hakeem was better and a more complete player than Duncan, here are some facts: -Hakeem won the MVP, DPOY and Finals MVP. (the only player to do it). -Hakeem had a quadruple double. -Olajuwon is the only player in NBA history to record more than 200 blocks and 200 steals in the same season. - When Hakeem retired he was in the top ten all-time in blocks, scoring, rebounding, and steals. He is the only player in NBA history to retire in the top ten for all four categories.
I'm even not seeing Duncan above KG. KG and Dream were a revolution at their position.Speedy 7 footer who could defend the Pick and Roll. Robinson was faster then Duncan and look what Hakeem did with him.
I will agree if Dream had the system/coach around him Duncan has, he would have the same amount of rings, likely more. Dream at his prime was better, no brainer, but if Duncan can stay producing for another 2 years it's hard to look past his longevity. Couldn't go wrong with either player.
Akeem, Hakeem, Dream, Olajuwon > Duncan. Dream is the lone HOF in the Rockets championship years. Duncan play, or played with 3-4 HOFs (Admiral, Tony Parker, Bruce Bowen, Ginobli). What I love about Duncan over Hakeem is being captain, I think Hakeem is too passive to get involve in team unity. If #34 got a "DNP-old age", I think Hakeem would go ballistic. Hakeem is too business-like and a lot of ego, one reason we had a failed experiment in the Big 4 (Pip, Chuck, Glide, Dream). Talent-wise, Hakeem is above Duncan.
Duncan is in a Center's body (7' dominating 6'8" and 6'9" power forwards. Hakeem was a center in a power forward's body (6'10, 6'11" on a good day) dominating 7'-7'3" centers with quickness, skill, and athleticism. Duncan lacks the quickness to dominate true big men, say a Dwight Howard, and he lacks the strength to guard a prime Shaq or hell Kendrick Perkins for 35-40mpg. Hakeem could guard Malone, Barkley, Ewing, and Shaq, and still score 25-30ppg. Duncan is the definition of consistent. While Dream had 3 legendary years, Duncan has had a decade and a half of hall of fame type years. San Antonio would disagree that Duncan has never carried a team. He has had a more accomplished career than Hakeem. But at their absolute best, Hakeem hands down. 95 Rockets vs 07 Spurs, 4th quarter, both men have 4 fouls. I bet you Duncan is guarding Horry or Chucky Brown. Guess who Hakeem sticks 1 on 1? Guess who is lighting up Francisco Elson for about 15 in the 4th?
I dont usually quote a long post but in this case, I had to because it speaks the TRUTH. If both were entering a draft, I would take Hakeem over Duncan because... 1) Hakeem is one of the only two players I have seen that had no weaknesses to their game which you could exploit in a series. 2) Think of Hakeem as Duncan on steroids. Anything Duncan could do, Hakeem could do better. He was faster and stronger and more athletic. 3) Hakeem was a more versatile defender. Better shot blocker and steal numbers. He has successfully played one on one defense against stronger players like Shaq and Karl Malone and quick players like Shawn Kemp. 4) Hakeem was the better post player with a lot more moves. 5) What hurts Duncan the most in this comparison is that he has been stopped one-on-one by players like Gasol, Karl Malone, Wallace bros. If you think Pau Gasol would have been able to contain Hakeem, you probably are senile or Spanish or likely both. Simply put, Hakeem was unstoppable on offense and he bested some of the best big men to have ever played in the NBA. More championship argument is a weak one to me. Some of Hakeem's best years were laid to waste because of the ineptness of the Rockets management. Duncan has been blessed to be part of a great organization throughout his career. Folks like to think that Hakeem magically turned into a dominant player during 1994. He took his team to the Finals in his second year, a playoffs in which he was dominating. A playoffs in which Riley emphasized containing Hakeem and they still beat the showtime Lakers. The only reason Duncan gets rated so high is because people like to categorize him as a PF. Rate him as a big man which includes centers and Forwards, as he should because the roles are very similar, and his stock takes a considerable hit. When I think of Hakeem, I think dominant. When i think of Duncan I think consistency, not dominant. As such, to me Hakeem is a top 10 player of all time while Duncan is one of top 25-50 player of all time.
The answers Hakeem, but that shouldn't take away from Duncan's greatness. Both players dominated the game at their primes and lead their teams to multiple championships. Different players for sure, and Olajuwon's versitility as a a scorer is what puts him over Duncan.
Everyone should be required to watch this before they decide. <iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/hW4uXlRGAF0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
Watching that video makes me miss our old look. I don't want to start a whole lets change the unis here, but the court just looks so clean. The red paint and boundaries with the light hardwood just looks so crisp.
I see this occasionally on this board and it never fails to tick me off. Yes, Duncan had 13 years of double-doubles while Dream only had 12. Hardly a difference that supports your statement. In other stats... Duncan had 5 years where he averaged over 12 rebounds per game, Dream had 6. Dream led the NBA in rebounds twice, Duncan, not once. Dream had 4 years where he had more rebounds than Duncan's best year. Dream had 13 years where he averaged more than 20ppg. Duncan had 9. Dream had 4 years where he averaged more ppg than Duncan's best. It was not until Dream's 16th season that he averaged below 15 ppg. Duncan reached that in his 14th season. Duncan scored over 23 ppg three times, Dream did it 9 times. The fact that Dream had a number of legendary years should not diminish his longevity or consistency. He performed better than Duncan. Some folks give Duncan more credit because he's been playing on our TVs the last 15 years while Dream's time is only in the memory of us older folks.. But make no mistake, Dream was better longer. This is Duncan's 15th year. When compared to Dream's 15th year, Dream averages more points, rebounds, blocks, steals, and assists and has a higher FG% and FT%.
You forgot to mention that Hakeem became the All time Leader in blocks in his 12th season. Duncan haven't even reached the 2500 mark. It is just disrespectful to Hakeem and his accomplishments to think Duncan is better.
Listen to how some of the greats talk about Hakeem. <iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/em6mdoB9p2s" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
Most all of the stats you mentioned can be adjusted for pace. Otherwise they're likely slanted in Hakeem's favor.
What would happen if they were adjusted? Honest question. Does the gap close, or widen? Hakeem seemed to play in faster pace at the beginning of his career, but slower pace near the end. Duncan a slower pace generally? Another honest question - some of pace is clearly era, but isn't some of it the player. This may be more obvious for some players. For example, Nash creates his own pace. I wouldn't compare him to other great PG's and then say what about adjusting for pace. Part of what makes Nash Nash is his ability to control pace to fit his game and help his team. I think the above comment is useful here, too. Duncan seems like one of those obvious players, too. I'm not sure what era you put him in, his teams would generally adjust to his pace. Which is slower, half court games. Hakeem was more capable of playing multiple, various paces. I still understand from a pure stats perspective, it is helpful to adjust for pace. But I'd argue Hakeem and Duncan have been equally successful, with Hakeem able to do it at various paces, and Duncan doing it at one pace, his. So I wouldn't really want to adjust.
The point of my post was to dispel the notion that Duncan should get more credit for longevity and consistency and for playing at a "Hall of Fame" level longer. Obviously though, I believe Dream the superior player regardless of stats or adjustments for "pace."
You probably mean Clyde but I hope you mean Rudy. Obviously Hakeem dominates Tim Duncan, especially when it comes to creativity. Tim Duncan's chief virtue was/is his reliability. He is one of the most consistently great players ever, "the Big Fundamental." But Hakeem Olajuwon, at least equally consistently great as illustrated above by rimrocker, changed the game with his creativity and dominance. Every year he invented something new and nobody but nobody could stop him. Duncan is/was solid as hell but Olajuwon was made out of magic.
Dream in prime over Duncan in prime easily BUT Duncan 36 yr > Old Olajuwon 36 yr old He aged more gracefully
