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Europe is falling apart---close to bringing the whole world down.

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by Northside Storm, Nov 9, 2011.

  1. B-Bob

    B-Bob "94-year-old self-described dreamer"
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    :confused: Some other thread maybe? Was kind of surprised that bigtexxx didn't bring more specifics than "shorting the USD" (against the Euro, one assumes, but it's not stated.) I mean... even I could see that, and I'm about as far from a financial expert as you can be. Otherwise, he just insults Northside storm, kind of baselessly, it seems. Standard low-content, high-insult stuff from him. That's not really "intellectually superior," at least IMHO.

    I will say I enjoyed that Reuters graph showing the holdings of major European banks -- Switzerland is an LOL-worthy eye-opener. Gotta love them.
     
  2. AroundTheWorld

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    Last I checked, Europe was still intact. Maybe you are trying to talk about the EU? Even the EU has NOT fallen apart and it has been more than half a year since the intern started this thread.

    Please, Major, add some evidence that we are "close to the whole world being brought down". Thanks in advance.
     
  3. Major

    Major Member

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    And last I checked, the thread was talking about Europe falling apart, not that the process was complete. The rate and whether the process completes itself depends on the actions of the various European countries.

    No - the EU is a wreck, but I'm talking about the economies of Europe.

    Why bother? I already did several pages ago the last time you asked. Northside has posted article after article and stat after stat on the subject. You conveniently ignore it all to continue your little name calling game and pretend this makes you somehow intellectually superior. Why don't you, instead, actually present a rebuttal to any of the many economic cases made in this thread?
     
  4. KingCheetah

    KingCheetah Atomic Playboy
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    ATW - Grease is the word.

    <iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/iH2a30LTeWw" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
     
  5. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Member

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    Europe is a cluster****.

    This is a topic worthy of discussion if we had the right people to talk about it.

    Seriously, these kinds of threads are why I like the D&D, in depth analysis and information pooling... Quit polluting it with mindless bull****.

    You know who you are.
     
    1 person likes this.
  6. Northside Storm

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    DJIA
    12,118.57 DOWN 274.88 DOWN 2.22%

    S&P 500 Index
    1,278.04 DOWN -32.29 DOWN 2.46%

    Deutsche Borse AG German Stock Index DAX
    6,050.29 DOWN -214.09 DOWN 3.42%

    FTSE 100 Index
    5,260.19 DOWN -60.67 DOWN 1.14%

    What have we learned? A global system that allows us all to thrive together in good times, also means we suffer together in lean times.

    http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/06/01/us-global-economy-idUSBRE85008R20120601

    China slowdown worsens amid signs U.S. losing steam

    Only a few years after the depths of 2008, the American financial sector, saved by brute force, half-measures at reform, and compromises spearheaded by Paulson, will have to face a new crisis that threatens to once again shake the foundations of global finance.

    Goldman Sachs (GS)
    92.64 Down 3.06(3.20%)
    3M Down 20.99%

    JPMorgan Chase & Co. (JPM)
    31.93 Down 1.22(3.68%)
    3M Down 17.88%

    Morgan Stanley (MS)
    12.73 Down 0.63(4.72%)
    3M Down 30.38%

    Will stronger capital buffers, and the ability to borrow at the discount window from the Fed make the difference? Or as JPMorgan's recent venture into CDS shows, will we have learned that an even bigger "too big to fail" Wall Street hasn't changed one bit? We have no choice but to wait to find out.

    And this is the frustrating part. I don't revel in failure. But this was something that people could see coming a mile away, and even now that we are beginning to fall down the rabbit hole, there is a surprising degree of inaction both from the center of the crisis, and from the countries that stand to be engulfed in the implications. The Europeans shoved everything back to another one of their Euro summits. The financial world is one bad and chaotic Greece result from fraying. Yet we still have more or less the same cast and with the delayed implementation of Dodd-Frank and pushback on Basel III, close to the same rules as during 2008.

    If things don't go any better (and I am not precluding this possibility entirely, though my hope for this diminishes every time Europe's politicians talk), capitalism as we know it will probably have to change. Whether it will be gradual reformist movements such as new strands of Keynesian thinking and social democracy, or something more radical...well, I'm not sure. But I cannot fathom things staying the same if we go through the same mess twice.
     
    #186 Northside Storm, Jun 1, 2012
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2012
  7. Northside Storm

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    http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/06/01/greece-tsipras-idUSL5E8H1HLK20120601

    Of course, the Euro summit is a week later.

    Nero fiddling while Rome burns? The Euro leaders need to sit down together NOW and hammer out solutions to get out of this hole, before Greek voters take things in their own hand, and elect someone the market will try to kill. What the f**k.

    ECB head: Euro structure 'unsustainable,' new vision and bank controls needed

     
  8. Northside Storm

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    http://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/an...jBF9TAzExODQ1NTAwMDgEcG9zAzIEc2VjA211c3RyZWFk

    MS the first to be in significant trouble. As if the Facebook IPO wasn't enough.
     
  9. geeimsobored

    geeimsobored Member

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    The Eurozone will be fine!

    [​IMG]
     
  10. pippendagimp

    pippendagimp Member

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    europe's just the starter plate. subsequent course japan portends to be a nice red miso soup. and uncle sam, king of the debt junkies, looks to be both the primi and secondi piatti's served up synchronously. chaos until that long-awaited one world currency rollout in ~8-9 yrs..

    i still remember looking across the gs equititties trading desk in '99 and in an opining moment, telling fellow colleague "cyrus, it's a good time to be alive right now."

    and when u close your eyes, momentarily suppress that self-preserving subjective emotion, and embrace the inevitability of the Cat 5 storm moving in - it's not a good time to be alive rite now.
     
  11. AroundTheWorld

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    So has the whole world been brought down yet?
     
  12. Northside Storm

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    I hold a glimmer of hope for Wednesday's ECB meeting. From the tone and candor, I think Draghi will be much more dovish, and slash the policy rate by 25 basis points. He might also pump in more money in the system, in different ways. The problem is Europe still needs to quickly drag itself out with actual structural reforms, and the ECB is legally constrained from things like funding illiquid private banks, but the ECB can buy some time, which is key at this point.

    Coordinated with a Fed QE3, it might lift the world out of the bear market for a little while. Still, these aren't permanent solutions, and each will eventually have their consequences.
     
  13. Northside Storm

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    Will this be the move that insulated America from Europe? It's the only hope at this point, with only the pretense of Dodd-Frank and Basel III having forced other arbitrary and anticipatory reforms.

    http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2008/09/21/goldman-morgan-to-become-bank-holding-companies/

     
  14. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Member

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  15. Major

    Major Member

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    Ah yes, here's more evidence of the superior intelligence you pretend to have. At least you've demonstrated that you're a troll and have no actual knowledge of the topic.
     
  16. Nook

    Nook Member

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    The thread headline is over the top, but in the last year have spent almost 3 months between Ireland, England and Spain... I can tell you from my experience Europe is really struggling and there is a lot of unrest.

    Things across the pond in America are not great, but far better than in Europe right now.
     
  17. AroundTheWorld

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    What do you base your purported knowledge on? Please share your qualifications with us. Googling for alarmist articles and re-posting them (basically what the intern does) does not count. Thanks in advance.
     
  18. Northside Storm

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    To be perfectly honest, if you're talking with ATW in this thread, he's wasting your time and his.

    It was fun baiting him, but now that the issue has gone over his head, it's preferable (for me at the very least) to see "This user is on your Ignore List.", instead of whatever trivial thing he is posting.

    Anyways, the slowdown of the BRIC countries is another worrying trend. While relatively speaking, the difference between 8% growth and 6% growth might not be such a big deal for the developed world that has long given up on achieving those growth figures, this slowdown has many implications.

    For example, the split in China between market-oriented reformists and more traditional hardliners will probably fracture even further given the evident flaws in the system China is trying to adapt. Given that China is in the middle of a once-in-a-decade transition of power, this does not auger well.
     
  19. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Member

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    The fundamental reasons behind the Lehman bust are still there... A panic prone repo market trading hundreds of billions in short term credit every day. Falling under the aegis of the US's economy is one thing. With the paper thin ECB, euro banks are effectively backed by the Germans significantly smaller reserves.

    I wouldn't say we're buffered from it all. Let's not get into the delusions of decoupling again
     
  20. Northside Storm

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    Decoupling is definitely a myth. There might have been a slight loss in co-movement among American and European indices for a very short time, but I think the markets have re-realized that a sick Europe means a sick America, especially as it is beginning to significantly affect real economic variables.

    Still, one would hope that the compromises made after 2008 made Wall Street slightly stronger (chiefly the investment' banks decision to take on some regulation and have the unquestioned ability for cheap liquidity from the Fed at any time as bank holding companies), and able to hold their own against financial crises elsewhere---in that way, the American economy might be buffered, at least in terms of the financial system.

    I have my doubts as well. But, really, if an even bigger-than-2008 Wall Street falls on its' knees...I mean sometimes, you just got to hold onto glimmers of hope, faint as they might be.
     

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