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The Rockets' Approach This Offseason Might Not Involve Using Cap Space

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by BimaThug, May 28, 2012.

  1. BimaThug

    BimaThug Resident Capologist
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    I was greatly concerned about Pau's trade kicker as well until I realized...

    Pau's trade kicker is null and void.

    That's right. A trade kicker can never cause a player's salary to exceed the maximum salary for a player with his years of service. Since Pau's contract pays him so much more than the "regular max" salary, his trade kicker is a non-issue. I imagine that the Lakers figured as much when they agreed to give it to him in contract negotiations.
     
  2. Carl Herrera

    Carl Herrera Member

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    The organization didn't fail to notice what Dragic did and what he could be. They traded your boy Brooks for him even while he was having a bad season in Phoenix. They also played him substantial minutes (around 20 mpg) even while Lowry was healthy. He simply wasn't as good as he became in the late part of the season, and was not as good as Lowry. Dragic's shots were not falling at the time and the team often struggled while Lowry sat. Dragic simply didn't show his abilities in the early part of the season (the team would have LOVED to give Lowry more rest. bit Dragic's struggles didn't allow them to do so), so what is there to notice? They gave Dragic all the minutes that his play warranted.

    The organization is actually quite good at noticing good performance by a guy coming off the bench. For example, when Lowry outplayed your boy Brooks coming off the bench in 09/10, the Rockets matched a full MLE offer for him even while many here screamed about the team overpaying a career backup. The team then wisely chose not to give Brooks a contract extension.
     
  3. DaDakota

    DaDakota Balance wins
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    Oh, I do not say that Nene was a guarantee, far from it. I think it is pure conjecture, but a lot of reporters and people close to the organization say it is true, including Bima here.

    So, while I have my doubts, I do respect that they may have information I do not.

    Of course - the Rockets are known for their "Almost" deals, they like to leak those so the masses can think...golly gee Beav, we almost got another one.

    DD
     
  4. DaDakota

    DaDakota Balance wins
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    Was it the full MLE, or just below?

    Either way it was wise to match that for Lowry, no argument there, and Brooks when traded was playing like crap (of course he was injured), kind of seems a bit like the Lowry situation, now doesn't it?

    The org does not recognize talent well....

    Witness Twill - Yuck

    Witness Ariza - Hey, maybe that 10 game playoff run will translate into him being a stud number 1 option....

    I think the org is reactionary, rather than one that gets folks BEFORE they break out.

    They find decent guys late in the draft that translate to nice role player, but they seem to avoid guys with much higher upside to go for the sure and steady thing.

    Now, maybe Morris was a shot in that direction - but if you are going to do that, then you need to commit to playing them - which also seems bizzare.

    Morey goes out and gets guys and the coaches sit on them....it just seems to be discombobulated around the org these days.

    How is that whole "Predatory" thing working out for them?

    DD
     
  5. Carl Herrera

    Carl Herrera Member

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    Nobody can say what the consequences of traveling back in time to change history would have been. Nene might not have suffered the same injuries had he been traded. He might not have sat out as many games as he did as a Wizard had his team not been in tank mode. Nene and Gasol could have meshed better than they did with their Denver/LA teammates. Pau could also have gotten caught in bed with Nene's pregnant wife and gotten beaten to death by Nene. Dragic could have been either great, mediocre or horrible in New Orleans. Jeremy Lin might have gotten testicular cancer had he not gone to New York.
     
  6. DaDakota

    DaDakota Balance wins
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    Yeah, no one could have seen Nene would miss significant time in a regular season, that has NEVER happened before, or has it?

    DD
     
  7. BimaThug

    BimaThug Resident Capologist
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    Adding Nene was more than just speculation. While not a 100% certainty (there are very few of those in life), it was a SUBSTANTIAL LIKELIHOOD that Nene would be signed after adding Gasol and amnestying Thabeet. Nene ended up re-signing with Denver only after dragging out his free agency for weeks; and he signed with the Nuggets for a lower annual salary than had been reportedly offered by both New Jersey and Houston. Nene himself even hinted at coming close to signing with Houston when the Nuggets came to Houston during the season.

    Also, the Nene addition possibly could have been made--and here's where the speculation begins--while keeping Chuck Hayes's cap hold on the books, allowing the Rockets to re-sign Chuck as a backup big and giving the Rockets perhaps one of the league's best big man rotations in Gasol, Nene, Hayes and Patterson.

    Still, don't start an argument with DD about this subject. No good can come from it. Trust me.
     
  8. xiki

    xiki Member

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    How would death like that affect the cap?
     
    1 person likes this.
  9. jtr

    jtr Member

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    Fair enough dude! Thank you.
     
  10. DaDakota

    DaDakota Balance wins
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    Come on now Bima, not everyone will leave the board because of it.

    :)


    Let me ask you something, you are a lawyer, right?

    Doesn't part of your job require you to do some risk assessment and alert your clients to the positives and negatives in any situation?

    Then your clients will weigh that data and make their decision about how much risk they are willing to take, or to avoid, right?

    So, would you have recommended paying Nene $55 million over 4 years - knowing his injury history and medical situation?

    Would you honestly have recommended that the organization take that risk?

    In my business, I listen to the risk assessments from professionals like yourself and then make the call as to which way to choose, hell, I rely on people like you to help, but I still make the ultimate call.

    So, put yourself in Morey's shoes - you know the risks, would you, if you were in charge, have done the deal and signed Nene?

    And for the record, I would not have...but I think you know that.

    DD
     
  11. jtr

    jtr Member

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    God that was an absolute nutso reply. LMAO!
     
  12. jtr

    jtr Member

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    And just to make it perfectly clear - if you have any more nutso thoughts I would love to hear them!
     
  13. Carl Herrera

    Carl Herrera Member

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    Ariza's playoff run was 20+ games. The organization also didn't sign him to be the first option-- they certainly didn't pay him first-option money. They offered him a chance to expand his game, but that doesn't mean "Go play like Kobe." In any case, the Rockets turned Ariza into a very useful Courtney Lee, so I'm not sure what you are complaining about. And Ariza has actually been a pretty good role player in New Orleans.

    Every team makes mistakes. NBA decision making is not an exact science. The Spurs spent some big money on Richard Jefferson. OKC acquired a first round pick to use on DJ White. The defending champ Mavericks gave up a first round pick to pay Lamar Odom a ton of money. Simply listing examples of successes or failures is a pointless way of arguing. The issue is whether you do better or worse in spotting talent than most teams would do in their given situation. The Rockets have been batting above average given the hands that they were dealt.

    As for spotting guys "before they break out".... Hello? Did the Rockets not trade for Kyle Lowry BEFORE HE BROKE OUT? Did the Rockets not trade for Dragic (and getting an EXTRA FIRST ROUND PICK IN THE BARGAIN) BEFORE HE BROKE OUT? It's all well and good to have opinions, but lets based them on reality, shall we?
     
  14. DaDakota

    DaDakota Balance wins
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    I will give them Kyle - but Dragic was jettisoned as a throw in before this season, which leads me to believe they did not see this coming.

    Agree that it is hit and miss, but the misses are sure piling up around here.

    DD
     
  15. jtr

    jtr Member

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    I really don't start arguments, I just state the obvious facts. And then back them up with citations.
     
  16. BimaThug

    BimaThug Resident Capologist
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    Yes, that is a big part of my job, DD. And had I been advising Les Alexander on whether to pay Nene that much money--we don't know exactly how much was being offered and whether Nene would have taken less to play with Pau and the Rockets--I would have made Les aware of Nene's injury history and the cap ramifications of adding Nene on a big, long-term deal.

    But I'm almost certain that the Rockets' front office personnel did EXACTLY that.

    One thing to consider is that, had the Rockets added Pau and Nene, they likely would have been capped out--but not in luxury tax hell--for most of the duration of Nene's contract, anyway. Other than some extra money going Nene's way, there was not a tremendous downside to having Nene making eight figures for four years.

    The Rockets have always looked to TRADES as the #1 way to improve the roster. With as much young talent (i.e., many pretty good young players) as the Rockets would have had on the roster (Patterson, Morris, Parsons, Bud, Moti's draft rights, Llull's draft rights and even Lin), they still could have improved via trade even with a "horrible in hindsight" contract for Nene. Plus, any major mistake could have been somewhat mitigated by the "stretch" provision of the new CBA, which would allow the Rockets to waive Nene and to spread out Nene's payments and the cap effect of waiving him over twice the number of years remaining on his deal (plus one).

    Again, nothing you say above is incorrect. I just think that decisions were made knowing the risks and a decision to move forward with a contract offer was a risk probably worth taking for Les Alexander.
     
  17. DaDakota

    DaDakota Balance wins
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    Thanks for the reply, and I respect your position, but you did not answer the question, would you, as GM, have taken that risk in signing Nene to $50+ million over 4 years, knowing his history?

    DD
     
  18. jtr

    jtr Member

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    DD - you have great sigs. Don't let the door knob hit ya ... Both classy and dirty at the same time. Kudo's.
     
  19. DaDakota

    DaDakota Balance wins
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    It is meant to be funny in a biting sort of way....sometimes they work, sometimes not.

    DD
     
  20. jtr

    jtr Member

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    Bima - do you think that signing Nene was any more than the speculation of the unwashed masses? I personally do not.
     

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