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I throw a rock. You throw it back. I shoot you. Authorities Watch.

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by Mathloom, May 21, 2012.

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  1. Deji McGever

    Deji McGever יליד טקסני

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    The crazies that started the riot are elected politicians in the majority coalition.
     
  2. Deji McGever

    Deji McGever יליד טקסני

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    Again the extremists who incited the mob to violence are elected officials in the majority coalition. They LEGALLY DO in fact represent the majority of Israelis, who voted them in.
     
  3. Mathloom

    Mathloom Shameless Optimist

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    1) 1.5 bllion Muslims. 15 million Jews. Shall we discuss which group has a higher proportion of extremism? Which group has more weapons do you think? As I'm sure you prefer, let's spit in the face of science and history just in this particular case and ignore all the socio-economic factors.

    2) Probably around 30% (some would say more) of Israelis are not Jewish. These settlers form a disproportionately high % of Jewish opinion in Israel. Fortunately, we know that this is not the natural state of Israeli opinion - everyone else is normal, and these people are charged by powerful rabbis as well as free taxpayer money in the form of grants and loans to subsidize construction and business.

    3) Islam is a religion and its law is derived from a holy book. Israel is a country, a member of the United Nations, and governed by laws. They are not comparable. It's the equivalent of comparing Judaism to Jordan. Islamic sharia is not supposed to be based on rationality, while Israel is.

    It's over guys. Those half-assed arguments have lasted a few decades now. No one is buying them anymore, which is why international pressure is mounting in spite of them. It's about time.
     
  4. Mathloom

    Mathloom Shameless Optimist

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    I'm Arab and from a country of 100% Muslim citizens. I'm a person of interest by default.
     
  5. Mathloom

    Mathloom Shameless Optimist

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    That's insane but not shocking. There are hate preachers in all religions, the only difference being the level of obedience of the population to those people, which I'm sure you know is directly and inseparably correlated to level of education and usually a consequence of not owning anything of monetary value in capitalist-leaning economies.
     
  6. AroundTheWorld

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    tl;dr version of this incoherent babble:

    Hai I am Mathloom, I am a closet salafist and I hate Jews and Israel.
     
  7. napalm06

    napalm06 Huge Flopping Fan

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    Gotta love internet pundits, lumping entire religions (much less religious people themselves) into insultingly simple stereotypes.

    And we are supposed to be too 'intellectual' for religion....
     
  8. DaDakota

    DaDakota Balance wins
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    I don't think people are the problem, I think religion is the problem.

    Of course religion was made up by people..so......I guess some of them are the problem.

    DD
     
  9. Mathloom

    Mathloom Shameless Optimist

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    I was wondering what has posessed you to call me a closet salafist these last few weeks. Quick read of the german papers, now I know. lol

    Run back to your extremist party, sheep.
     
  10. DaDakota

    DaDakota Balance wins
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    Oh man the irony is dripping in this post.....from the number 1 Islamist apologist, a guy paid by his own government to spread their lies and propaganda.

    Man, that is rich.

    DD
     
  11. Mathloom

    Mathloom Shameless Optimist

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    Tide is turning.

    If Germany supports Israel's right to exist unconditionally, and Israel insists its existance is dependent on owning unsupervised nuclear, chemical and biological weaponry, then the blood of Iranians will soon be on German politicians' hands as well.

    Their people are telling them NO.

    Even Nobel Laureate Gunter Grass, who served in Hitler's Waffen SS, is saying that Israel is the threat.

    Israelis must beware that their extremists don't drag them into losing lives. Israelis must be aware that the Iranian regime is unstable and unless they are finished off quickly, those crazy rich mofos will spend all their money supporting thugs and criminals to attack the safety of Israeli civilians. This Iranian regime is never ever going to nuke Israel as long as Palestinians live in and around Israel.

    Extremist Germans are busy campaigning about the distribution of free korans in their country. That's the REAL threat, literature you don't believe in!!

    Good thing Germany is waking up. No wonder the conservatives are on their way out, the people are sick of them.
     
  12. rockbox

    rockbox Around before clutchcity.com

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    In this case, its different versions of the same made up stories.
     
  13. AroundTheWorld

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    1) You forgot the link to the source of your article.
    2) Nobody except a few fellow anti-semites is buying your anti-Israel propaganda.
     
  14. Kojirou

    Kojirou Member

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    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
     
  15. Deji McGever

    Deji McGever יליד טקסני

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    I'm not an expert in Iran's interpretation of Shia doctrine and how it relates to their politics, but "sacrifice" is a word that comes up a lot in the transcripts I read.

    Mutually assured destruction is more on the order of the day. I think Israel's nuclear armed Dolphin-class submarines are probably more of a deterrent, if anything.
     
  16. AroundTheWorld

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    "We are irrational, so it's ok!"

    So are you saying that if no Palestinians lived in and around Israel, but only Jews, the Iranian regime would nuke Israel?

    Interesting.
     
  17. da_juice

    da_juice Member

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  18. Mathloom

    Mathloom Shameless Optimist

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    Deji,

    Do you think Iranian leaders are strictly religious and live by Shia doctrine? Do you think they would ever sacrifice their money? Do you think they would go through with this if it meant losing their power forever? Think of even the extremist leaders in other countries who act religious - are they really willing to lose their authority?

    Sacrifice is as big in Shia doctrine as it is in Sunni doctrine, no difference. Why no paranoia about the Sunni countries?

    If Iran was going to attack Israel with a nuke, they wouldn't be able to control the riots in their own country long enough to go through with it.

    The only way the Iranian regime goes this route is if they are isolated, have no friends, are assuredly losing their power, and have nothing to lose. Which is where we're pushing them.

    These guys wouldn't sacrifice 20 cents. They certainly won't risk their power. I agree that, at the core of it, they probably don't care about Palestinians. There is no way Iran will murder all the Palestinians though. It is suicide, political and otherwise. They can not do it. They will never do it. They know their place in the world. They know that every human on earth will retaliate in one way or another. These are politicians. Do you really think their plan is to get one weapon in a world with thousands of them, and explode it, and then what? Cross their fingers and hope the world powers will be scared? lol They don't care about anyone but themselves, so they will not commit suicide.

    The Iranian people will build full nuclear capability, under this regime or otherwise. They were planning it before the 1979 revolution, and they will continue it after the inevitable next one. Until the NPT becomes anything more than a doormat, this is what will happen. What we should be trying to control is the irresponsible use of nuclear technology, and until these standards are applied uniformly to all countries, the people of the world (not only Iran) will continue to laugh at the notion that nuclear technology is only for those allowed by yourselves.

    Think about this region. This is not a secure situation for us, we are not illiterate anymore. We see that support of US-deemed "International Community" for Israel is unconditional, and support for everyone else depends on how long our resources and obedience last. We see that if 500 people are murdered in Rwanda, no one cares. If 500 are murdered in Libya, NATO is on the frontline. Our resources won't last forever.

    To think of hundreds of nuclear weapons concentrated in one place in an otherwise nuclear-free zone as a deterrent is incredible. It's truly incredible. To call something which was compiled decades ago a deterrant for something which has not yet come into existance decades later is unbelievable. Ask yourself when this Iranian regime came into existance, and when the deterrants to Iran came into existance.
     
  19. AroundTheWorld

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    tl;dr version: Hai, I am Mathloom and like Ahmadinejad, I would prefer it if Israel had no weapons and no support so that we could finally wipe them off the map.
     
  20. Deji McGever

    Deji McGever יליד טקסני

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    Some of them, for sure. Even more so for their surrogates in Hizbollah. Religious orders are strewn with hypocrites, but there are always some true believers.

    Yes to all of these, in the same way there were those in the US, UK, USSR, Germany or Japan willing to die for their "ideals." And even more willing to make some one else die for them!

    Shia, for Israelis (and probably a lot of Americans) is associated in most minds with Iran and the Hizbollah. I only know one Shiite (he's a Palestinian journalist) and he's stereotyped even worse in Ramallah. The leadership of other Muslim countries (Egypt, Saudi Arabia, etc) only seem to cite religion in foreign policy speeches as a way to rally the masses (any more at least). With guys like Nasrallah, the rhetoric is different and very fatalistic.

    Everyone else (ok, maybe not Hamas) is talking about ending the Occupation and normalizing relations. Iran and Hizbollah are waxing poetic about all the driving everyone into the sea stuff like it's still 1948.


    Israel's nuclear arsenal predates the Iranian revolution by nearly 20 years. It was created as a "Sampson option" as a deterrent to Egyptian, Syrian and Jordanian armor columns, which were in way greater numbers than Israel's land forces could ever handle in a full scale war. It was Ben Gurion's idea and Shimon Peres' planning, with help from De Gaulle, and was probably inspired by Eisenhower.

    The US brought nukes to the Cold War battlefield in Europe for the same reason: they couldn't match conventional Soviet forces. Had the Soviets ever mounted a full scale assault on Western Europe, I have little doubt the US would have used them to "save" everyone from communism :)

    Some historians claim that in the '73 war, Moshe Dayan ordered bombers on standby with live nukes in Cairo and Damascus. He really believed Tel Aviv was going to fall and that it was game over. That was the sort of situation Israel's nukes were originally designed for.


    As far a nuclear Iran goes, if I'm the leader of any Gulf State, I'm thinking "How fast can *I* build a reactor?" And I can hardly blame them.
     

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