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Lebron chokes again

Discussion in 'NBA Dish' started by Rockets Pride, Feb 13, 2011.

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  1. francis 4 prez

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    maybe that's because the Free Throw Attempt to Field Goal Attempt ratio just collapsed to an all-time low this year. almost 6% lower than at any point since bird and magic entered the league. even accounting for the increase in 3 point attempts (crudely accounting for it anyway) this was by far the worst year in that time frame, beating out the lows from the early 80's, early 90's, and early 2000's by about 3%. it appears in the league's haste to stop calling "kevin martin" fouls they forgot to start calling the rest of the fouls.

    over longer timeframes such as a career the free throw rate largely evens out for everyone. over jordan's career using the 3-point adjusted numbers it appears there were about 1% fewer fouls than in lebron's first 9 years. throw out his last 2 washington years and it's almost exactly the same.

    and why shouldn't lebron have more free throws than wilkins? he's harder to stop from getting to the basket for layups and dunks.

    or given the fact he would be getting 10+% more possessions on many of the teams of that time (though jordan's bulls were actually fairly slow-paced by that era's standards) with about the same foul rate, his raw numbers would almost certainly go up.


    and if we're just throwing 2012 lebron james into the 1980s nba and not adjusting his athleticism/strength/nutrition/training down or the 1980s guys up, then his numbers would go up significantly even with the same number of possessions.
     
  2. DVauthrin

    DVauthrin Member

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    If LeBron played in the 80's and 90's he would still dominate with his athleticism, strength, and court vision. In fact, not having to face zone defenses would only help his game, as very few defenders would have been strong enough to hand check LeBron while being able to stay in front of him.
     
  3. Icehouse

    Icehouse Member

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    LeBron would be great in any era. But I can't believe folks who watched ball in the 90's, where they could handcheck you, where centers (REAL ONES) could camp in the lane to deny drives and where dudes could take your head off when driving....could honestly say it's not easier today. Use your eyes people.
     
  4. Steve_Francis_rules

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    Actually, camping in the lane is easier now due to the change in the old illegal defense rule.
     
  5. DVauthrin

    DVauthrin Member

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    Of course overall it's easier today because of the dearth of physicality and big men in the league. But LeBron is still going to be built like a tank regardless of his era, and I don't envision many players being able to be physical with him while possessing the foot speed to stay with him. He would still get in the paint at will. He would have to deal with better rim protectors and shot blockers, but I'd imagine he'd figure out how to dominate from 5-10 feet.
     
  6. plutoblue11

    plutoblue11 Member

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    I agree, not to say that the 80s-90s did not have good defenders, but you really cannot compare guarding Michael Jordan to anyone else. Maybe, Kobe, but even then...I have to say I've say Kobe hit alot of circus shots and he is a slightly better long range shooter.

    With LeBron, it's a complete different element. Not only is he taller at 6,8-6,9. He's just as fast and quick, possibly and weighs almost 260. It would take a good defensive team across the board to slow player, like LeBron, similarly to Jordan. In some games, it's still not going to be enough.


    The rim protectors would be there more so than today, but even on that token. Once you get outside the top 7 - 10 centers, there was tremendous drop off in talent, during the 80s and 90s. Alot of teams, during those days played small or had big men who really weren't known for their defense. Most teams still had mediocre centers, but there were more HOF caliber players, even then that did not always stop the high fliers from coming into the paint, entirely.
     
  7. roslolian

    roslolian Member

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    Hard D goes both ways you know. Lebron is 6'8/6'9, is built like a tank and is still quick enough to guard the MJs and Birds of that era. Maybe his FG% would go down, but with him also able to play rough defense I'm pretty he's gonna be able to shut everybody he guards.

    Let's face it, in today's NBA strength isn't that big a factor since you can't really touch your defender, someone like Chandler Parsons is able to guard people far more effectively than physical powerhouses like Ron Artest. In the 90's though, guys like Rodman who weren't that tall but were extremely physical were able to let loose and really guard everybody. Lebron would make his opponents put up like 12% in that era.
     
  8. Jontro

    Jontro Member

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    I think we can all agree that Hakeem's era is the best era of all time hence making him the best player of all time. ALL TIME!

    Yes, more than MJ.
     
  9. plutoblue11

    plutoblue11 Member

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    Magic and Bird's era was the best, sorry.
     
  10. SamFisher

    SamFisher Member

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    This offensively challenged span was in the mid-to- late 90's to early 00's (coincidentally, that is when Shaq was at his zenith, since the only way to fight fire was with fire). Sure, LeBron would be slightly diminished there, but he's a lot closer to that now than in the Showtime era.

    Contrast that with most of the comparison points on this thread (yourself included), that have focused on Magic, Bird, and pre-1st-retirement Jordan...an era in which LeBron would probably be even more dominant than he is today.
     
  11. francis 4 prez

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    and yet offensive efficiency was at its peak. probably because all these supposed decapitations are largely exaggerations based on a few highlights played over and over throughout the years. the 99% of defense that wasn't cheap shots and hard fouls apparently wasn't as good because offensive efficiency was at its peak. apparently other factors were more important. like the fact that with all these supposed hard fouls free throws were still plentiful. go watch rockets/jazz game 5 from 1995 on youtube. they're handing out free throws like candy in that game (86 for both teams). and on some seriously ticky tack stuff. and that's pretty much how it's always been. because the idea that free throws were so hard to earn, that defense was allowed to be so physicaly, play in and play out, just isn't true.

    people point to handchecking while ignoring the illegal defense changes. i don't know if getting rid of illegal defense made defense better, but there's no way it made it worse. being able to put your players wherever you want versus not being able to do that can't be bad for a defense. there's a reason that fronting yao (or the heat fronting hibbert recently) can be such an effective strategy these days. because the help from the perimeter can be closer today without having to worry about an illegal defense. imagine if you wanted to double lebron and instead of just hedging over to optimally be there for help D on lebron and recovery to the shooter, you had to either fully commit to lebron or to the shooter or it would be a technical. wouldn't lebron (and every other perimeter star) love being able to pick that apart? while there is now defensive 3 seconds in the paint when there didn't used to be, that would still be illegal defense back in the day if the offense's big man was out by the 3 point line.

    whatever has changed or not changed, the 80s and early 90s were the most efficient era ever. whether easier or tougher, getting better offensive stats was the nature of the game back then. just like shooting a terrible percentage was the nature of the game in the 60s. and playing a slow-paced, defensive-oriented game was the nature of the game in the late 90s and early 00s.
     
  12. Someguy1229

    Someguy1229 Member

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  13. Rockets Pride

    Rockets Pride Member

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    Regardless.. Two Lebron bricks under the seconds to win the game.
     
  14. sinobball

    sinobball Member

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    well he did make the 3 pointer, but last play = choke
     
  15. TheGreat

    TheGreat Member

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    NBA is watered down, both teams are awful.
     
  16. TheGreat

    TheGreat Member

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    Does being fouled out consider as choking?
     
  17. Rox11

    Rox11 Member

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    Wade missed the shot = LeBron chocked....logic
     
  18. apollo33

    apollo33 Member

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    Lebron can't choke anymore

    He has decided to pass up every game winning opportunity ever presented to him.

    Lock this thread
     
  19. cjtaylorpt

    cjtaylorpt Member

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    He hit the three to put it into overtime...
     
  20. J.R.

    J.R. Member

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    Hit big tying three, pass off to Haslem for final shot in regulation.
     
    #1180 J.R., Jun 3, 2012
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2012

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