News flash - it's much easier to get 3-5 blocks per game and be known a "domin[ant] rim protecting center] in an era where teams had 100-110 possessions per game than one in which they have 90. If you look at the amount of Blocked shots per FGA - it's really not too much different than in 1987 - 453 blocked shots leaguewide/ 7281 FGA = .062 blocks/attempt 2011 399/6660 = .059 blocks/attempt But anyway, top 15 alltime shotblockers that lebron played against: Mutumbo, Shaq, Duncan, Camby, Wallace, Mourning
Well he is human. Only thing LeBron has left to prove is that he can come up big in the NBA finals. He didn't play well in the finals in 2007 and he just faded into the background last year.
smits and parrish at least altered shots… again. name 1 rim protecting center or ANY center with skills LeBron has ever faced.. MJ faced, Dream, Robinson, Shaq and Kareem.. i'll take smits and Parrish and ewing off the list since u say they weren't any good.. Dwight is the best this era has to offer..
See above - but anyway, "rim protecting center with skills" doesn't effect your offensive output as much as having 15 fewer possessions per game.
uhh… if u think the nba is better now defensively right now than the 90's when MJ played with these centers then u need to get off the boards man because you just slammed your own legend in the Dream.. and Ewing avaeraged over 2.5 blks a game for his career.. Smits 1.5 blks and parish in his prime was over 2.5 a game as well.. he declined bad as he got older.. i swear all these posters have to be like 25? how old are u guys? rim protecting centers is what we all say we need because we have no defense and guys get through the lane at will with this team.. so we need that to make our defense better and to change the other teams offensive output, yet u say having one DOESN NOTHING to change a players offensive output it's just possessions.. you need to stop posting all together man..
but hey you guys are right… MJ would have been completely locked down by the likes of Iggy and Marion who are just staright RIDICULOUS athletes… LeBron would probably average 60ppg and dunk over Dream and Robinson and a prime Shaq right.. since them being rim portectors means NOTHING in basketball...
Dream and KAJ are the greatest shot blockers in modern NBA history. Nobody compares to them today. I'm not sure if any of them would even be in prime Robinson class. Not sure why you didn't put Mutombo who would probably be the 3rd best. In the LBJ era? Howard, Camby, Duncan, Ben Wallace, Ratliff, Josh Smith, etc. I'm not sure if any of them would even be in prime Robinson class. Both O'Neals, Garnett & Yao would be in the decent category. It isn't devoid of rim protectors, but like Jordan, he hasn't had face many great ones because he has played in an opposite conference. Both had Mourning for parts of their careers.
1.5? Thats a mediocre center in today's era. Ewing averaged 2.5? Let me add Joel Anthony, since he averages 2.6/36 min. Olajuwon/Robinson/Jabbar/Mutombo averaged well over 3 a game during their prime.
i did put mutombo in a earlier post.. MJ is the greatest of all time.. until LeBron can win 6 titles and put up numbers like MJ did in the Finals and be efficient while doing it. this argument is dead.
Waiting for someone to argue that LBJ > MJ. If the argument is would LBJ be just as good in the 80s/90s, than I believe the answer is yes. Do I think MJ would be just as good in the 2000's? Yes.
Ewing for HIS CAREER averaged 2.5.. his peak season was 4.0 a game coupled with other seasons over 3.0.. also, they did that while grabbing boards and scoring over 18 a game.. joel anthony does nothing but block shots.. my point was all we talk aboput on here is having a "anchor" on defense, a lane clogging center that will knock someone on his a(ss, block shots, and alter shots.. so i name all the centers in the 90's that did that, and yes some weren't great shot blockers but were lane clogging centers that we would all die for right now, and i'm told that rim protecting centers don't matter and don't keep opposing players from being less efficient offensively.. it's just the amount of possessions in a game.. and i was being sarcastic about his 60ppg..
Talking about purely in clogging the lane or blocking shots, we have those now (rebounding is mostly irrelevant to this discussion). What made that generation of big men great is that they were so much more than that. They were complete players, while we don't have much of that anymore. Yes, Ewing did that, but all in his first few seasons. After his mid-20s, he was no longer doing that.
haha ok, but still… u reference joel anthony.. when joel anthony or any center from this era can play as many seasons as Ewing and average 2.5 blocks a game then let's talk… i honestly do not believe that Dwight Howard as a center would be that good in the 90's era of big men.. LeBron would have a tougher time IMO, because LeBron does two things. 1) shoots three's 2) Drives for a dunk or layup. in the finals last year he was exposed as a terrible mid range jump shooter.. and in the 90's is why a guy like MJ was unstoppable.. he perfected the mid range jump shot..
LeBron can shoot midrange, and some pretty amazing floaters. He's just streaky. Jordan had his unstoppable turn around jumper, but also had a lot of drives to the basket like LeBron. LeBron is the better 3-point shooter, and would have benefited from the temporarily drawn in 3-pt line. He'd also benefit from bringing back illegal defense. I think we might see him use his post game more. I'm not sure hand-checking would bother him much. Of course a guy like Joel Anthony would never be able to do that because he is so terrible at everything else.
well he certainly couldn't when dallas went zone on the heat last year… he was forcing the drive, he ran over people, made terrible decisions.. all from a zone.. and a REALLY good one too.. i know other teams run a zone defense but dallas ran it to perfection...
I don't really know what your problem with Shawn Marion or Andre Iguodala is, but if you're arguing that they wouldn't be outstanding athetes now or in any era, you're a bit mistaken. The point is that LeBron is putting up numbers that are incredible in any era, and he's not playing in an era that's particularly friendly to putting up huge raw offensive numbers. It's not as bad as the late 90's, but it's not as good as teh 80's either, primarily due to pace. Overall though just like every other sport, as the talent pool expands and , the cut off point at the highest level gets higher and higher. It was certainly higher in the 80's than in the 60's, and it's higher now than in the 80's......In other words, I don't see Andrew Toney making the all-star team today.
i have no issue with Iggy or KD.. go read the page before and have issue with the guy that said MJ was the first Dunkathon type Sg in the league acting as if no one played above the rim until the 2000's.. Dominique Wilkins could actually jump higher than MJ.. Iggy and Marion couldn't hold MJ in check if their lives depended on it.. i'm not saying they are bad nba players.. but they aren't ridiculous athletes like the poster claimed.. i usually don't get in on "what decade was best" debates.. i do think the 90's was the best basketball had to offer in terms of top 50 players playing collectively at the same time.. but the way i took that one post was MJ wouldn't put up numbers like he did if he played now and LeBron would put up bigger numbers back in the day..
league-wide offensive efficiency was at it's peak from the start of jordan's career up through his first retirement. why it was is irrelevant. but it was. and with a faster pace, it was undoubtedly easier to put up offensive numbers in jordan's era than in lebron's era. which is why we have things like PER to adjust for league-wide conditions. and PER still says jordan was the best ever. but it certainly knocks others who benefited from the era down a little. and helps someone like duncan playing on a slow-paced team in a slow-paced era with low efficiency. which is as it should be. much like every current qb with a pulse has better numbers than some all-time greats from the past, we have to adjust for what the league was like. whether it was coaching philosophy, reffing, or style of play, it was easier to score efficiently in jordan's era than now.
