Not sure. I think it would be easier if you list the physical evidence that conflicts with his story.
Excellent point, but this point is actually the point that ultimately sinks Zimmerman. Any reasonable person would accept that if someone pulls a gun or knife you, you are in grave danger of severe bodily harm, if not death. And the law affords you the right to defend yourself with means up to and including the use of deadly force. However, in the same way someone following you doesn't entitle you legally to use force, losing a fist fight does NOT entitle you to pull out a gun and shoot them. Courts have been consistent on this, for obvious reasons. If all it took to justify shooting someone was being in a fist fight, our society would have a hell of a lot more homicides and there would be a much lesser need to have local police forces. Save the tax dollars. There's just no evidence other than Zimmerman's word to indicate anything more than a fist fight took place. No one other than him has said his head was bashed into the concrete repeatedly. We know he didn't sustain a concussion and none of the cuts were severe enough to warrant hospitalization or even bandages. The Sanford Police Department report stated that they felt his injuries were inconsistent with someone who had been punched as many times as he had claimed and the investigator in the bond hearing called BS on his head bashing claim. Zimmerman's own words according to Witness 13 pretty much capture the essence of his case and why it was not a justifiable homicide. "He was beating me up, so I had to shoot him". Lol. Getting your butt kicked doesn't mean you can legally shoot someone. The dude took a life and it's now time for him to be accountable and go to prison. Not sure why this concept is so hard for some to grasp. The Bible doesnt say "Thou shall not kill (unless someone throws a couple punches at you". Neither do the laws of our society. Simple case.
1) No concussion 2) No stitches 3) Not a single bandage applied by EMT, who treated him on the scene 4) Never hospitalized. 5) Only one small abrasion to Trayvon's left knuckle in addition to his shooting wound. If Trayvon had been punching him over and over and over, he'd have more signs of aggressive injuries and much more trauma to his knuckles, Zimmerman's blood on him, etc. 6) Trayvon's DNA was NOT found on Zimmerman's gun or his holster, despite Zimmerman's claim there was a struggle for the gun 7) Eyewitnesses saying there were no sounds of a struggle when the gun went off 8) Zimmerman says his head was being bashed in repeatedly, yet the shooting occurred in the grassy area, not the concrete area. 9) He says his mouth was covered by Martin, but 911 call recorded 14 separate unmuffled screams of "Help". His story doesn't add up...
1-5: The evidence agrees with a story that Zimmerman was being beaten by Martin. Blows to the head (broken nose) are considered deadly force. The rest of your points really seem irrelevant. 1-4 are just silly. 6 Gun was fired in close range, this along with injuries strongly suggests struggle. I haven't seen anything indicating if Martin's fingerprints are not on the gun. 7-9 indicate inconsistency in witness rather than Zimmerman. I am not sure what story fits the evidence you put forth better than Zimmerman's. He got slightly beaten, then was able to pull a gun without a struggle and shot martin within arms reach?
You're probably the only one here who gets it, besides me. If you're in fear for your life, which Zim may have been, you can use deadly force. You can use deadly force against against force, or attempted force. Which means if someone is running at me with a two foot piece of schedule 40 pipe, I'm justified in using deadly force against their attempted use of force on me. In the real world, when you have mere seconds to think, it isn't reasonable to wait until you need an ambulance to use deadly force. I bet Zim didn't ask him I he was a teenager and how bad he planned on hurting him. I'll keep reminding myself this is probably the most liberal, democrat wussified forums this side of the milky way, and it keeps me from getting too bent out of shape. I don't think I've ever met someone like the folks who post here.
Zimmerman can start the fight without leaving a bruise, or cut on Martin. It's been pointed out here already.
There have been several experts who have come forward and said that the screams of "Help" were not from Zimmerman. Don't you think it's hard to kill someone and claim self-defense when the victim was screaming for "help"? Is this your opinion? If not, can you provide a link?
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Martin's dad said it wasn't him. I guess your second question is based on assumption Martin was screaming for help. Don't think that will be an easy one to prove. The DA will need to connect all of these facts and tell a story. I doubt they want their story based on Martin being the one screaming for help. Yeah, google any deadly force definition.
I've looked before and haven't found anything as definitive as what you're claiming. Based on your definition, a slap to the face can be considered "deadly force".
Once again though the only thing certain about the physical evidence is that Zimmerman got the worst of the altercation, up until he shot Martin of course. Anyway there still is the evidence that in my opinion is the most troubling for Zimmerman which is the positions of their bodies. If Zimmerman had shot Martin while Martin was on top of him bashing his head into the ground and/or trying to choke him why did witnesses report seeing Zimmerman standing over Martin almost immediately after the shooting and why is none of Martin's blood on the front of Zimmerman's clothes? Further I was thinking about this the other day. From what you posted earlier intermediate range means that Martin was shot within a few inches, close range is with the barrel against the body. The bullet trajectory was horizontal. The few inches fits with shooting Martin possibly while Martin on top of him but to have the trajectory enter horizontally while Zimmerman is on the ground getting choked or his head bashed Martin would have to be lying on top of him and given the wound is in the chest just giving the length of Zimmerman's forearm the gun would have to pressed up against his chest. Otherwise the bullet should've entered at an angle. It seems more likely that Zimmerman shot Martin while both were either standing or Martin was backing off of Zimmerman. That would explain seeing Zimmerman standing over Martin right after the shooting, the trajectory of the bullet, and that witnesses and audio experts report hearing Martin screaming right before the shot. That fits the scenario I laid out on page 87.
Breaking someone's nose is not deadly force. Shooting someone in the chest or stabbing them in the knife is. How many people have died rom broken noses? The physical evidence does not point to a major struggle. Neither sustained major injuries. It should also be pointed out that if you are relying on the doctor's report it said "possible broken nose" and referred him to an ENT specialist he never saw. From the pictures of Zimmerman post incident, it's hard to see if the nose is broken or not. It's certainly not a severe break where the nose has clearly been relocated. Think about your last sentence for a second. If the struggle was such that Zimmerman was just getting pulverized into next week with Martin on top of him bashing his head into the concrete, it's extremely unlikely he'd have been able to unholster his gun and fire it. The fact that the shooting occurred in grass is really problematic for Zimmerman. This clearly suggests that either he lied about having his head bashed into the concrete or that at the time the shot was fired the threat of severe bodily harm had been removed. The witness statements that there were no sounds of a physical struggle are also a problem for him. Self-defense is an affirmative defense where the onus is on the defendant to prove by a preponderance of evidence that he/she was justified. So Zimmerman needs corroborating witnesses, which he seems to lack.
Actually there is a case very similar to that from Georgia, where there is also a similar stand your ground law to FL. http://www.salon.com/2012/04/11/when_stand_your_ground_fails/ This case was brought up in the Stand Your Ground thread but here is the gist of it. John McNeil in 2005 shot a Brian Epps while Epps was charging him. Epps had earlier threatened McNeil's son with a knife and when Epps was shot he still had the knife on him in his pocket and at the moment he was shot was reaching for that knife. This was on McNeil's property so he cited both the stand your ground law and the Castle doctrine but was still convicted of murder and is now serving a life sentence. This is a case that shows is that self-defense isn't as cut and dry as you think it is and in the situation you describe of someone running at you with what you consider a weapon and intent to do you harm you could still find yourself convicted. Keep in mind this was in Georgia. Hardly a state that could be considered a bastion of liberalism. For the record I don't agree with the McNeil ruling.
If I remember correctly, bruises take time to form and bruises do not form once death occurs as once the heart stops, blood stops flowing and pools at the lowest point in the body. The relatively short time between the altercation and the death could explain why there are no signs of trauma.
Of course she's biased. So is Zimmerman's dad, etc. Here are some circumstantial pieces of evidence that point to it being Martin's voice though. I'm not saying I'd send someone to prison for life based on circumstantial evidence, but I have a tough time believing the voice was Zimmerman's for the following reasons: 1) Who cries in a high pitched voice like a little girl after being punched in the face a few times? Is it more likely a person would cry like a girl if they saw a gun held by someone ready to shoot them or from if they were getting their ass kicked? 2) The higher pitched voice sounds more like a 17 year old than a 28 year old although this isn't always the case. But generally speaking, younger people in teenage years have higher pitched voices. 3) The biggest thing that seals it for me is the extremely short timespan between the last clearly audible cry for "Help" on the 911 call and the gunshot. It's one second. To believe Zimmerman was the one crying for help, you have to believe that a man who had made the conscious, voluntary decision to shoot someone was crying for help literally AS he was shooting his attacker. And that is very hard to believe.
