1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

Just because Dwight opted in doesn't mean he won't be traded

Discussion in 'NBA Dish' started by jopatmc, Mar 30, 2012.

Tags:
Page 5 of 7
  1. jopatmc

    jopatmc Member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2002
    Messages:
    15,370
    Likes Received:
    390

    I will be somewhat surprised if Jim and Mitch go all in for Howard with Bynum and Gasol.

    I will be very surprised if Orlando bites on a Bynum for Dwight deal straight up.



    Jim Buss' fascination with Bynum is going to kill the Lakers. It's going to kill them. The Lakers, really, should trade both guys. They should trade Pau along with either Artest and another minimum salary guy for Amare and Chandler or they should trade Pau, Blake, McRoberts, and another minimum salary guy for the same combo of Amare/Chandler. They should then move Bynum for a premier SF or a very good SF and a draft pick. There's a number of different possibilities with Bynum: Iggy and a pick, a S&T'd Batum and a high pick, possibly Paul Pierce for Bynum straight up, Josh Smith and a first rounder, or perhaps Bynum straight up to whoever is drafting MKG. Lakers have tons of options they can go to to build out a quality team around Kobe and once it's done, go get Nash for the MLE.

    Nash/Kobe/(MKG, Iggy, JSmoove or whoever), Chandler, Amare....that's a championship contending team.

    However, Nash (if they could sign him), Kobe, Hedo, Dwight, McRoberts.....not as potent and certainly not as attractive to a guy like Nash wanting to chase rings.

    I personally believe if the Lakers would trade both guys and bring in mega players around Kobe, that they would be very, very attractive to Nash. And Nash would be the perfect PG to play with Kobe, Amare, Tyson Chandler, et al.

    So, the bottom line is, surely the Lakers know this too. That's why they're not going all in for Dwight using both Pau and Bynum. I don't think they trade both guys unless they get back Dwight and other players that are championship team pieces. (That's why they want to drag in Houston so we can take back Hedo and Pau and send out Scola/Martin/Lowry to appease them and Orlando.)

    As for Orlando, you tell me....is Bynum for Dwight better than moving out Dwight and Hedo for Lowry, 4 first round picks, and whatever other picks, young talent they can get for Kevin Martin and/or Luis Scola???? Cap space and young talent galore vs. taking the risk that Bynum is going to get better and sign long-term while they're stuck with no more tradable assets because Hedo is still on the roster. Which makes the most sense for them???
     
    #81 jopatmc, May 23, 2012
  2. J.R.

    J.R. Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2008
    Messages:
    114,264
    Likes Received:
    176,948
    Downsides, if you will, with Bynum is his maturity(or lack thereof), his injury history and finally, he'll be a FA next year I believe.

    No, before people go on the attack, ha, I'm not saying Houston and anything they can offer trumps Bynum. Not saying that.

    I was just thinking, although I'm not sure Orlando or New Jersey bites on it, Gasol for Deron, and the Howard/Bynum swap. Kobe, Howard, Deron, why not? :p

    PS: Just say no to Pau. Do not want. Not unless you're building your own 'Big 3' of Williams, Howard, Gasol and that's very unlikely.
     
    #82 J.R., May 23, 2012
  3. jopatmc

    jopatmc Member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2002
    Messages:
    15,370
    Likes Received:
    390
    The problem is you can't look at in the context of just Bynum for Dwight.

    Bynum is not as good a player as Dwight is. If Orlando makes that deal, then they become worse and they are still locked into the same miserable contracts around Bynum. They're gonna be somewhere around 8th seed in the East to #10 to #14 in the lottery. And nobody is going to want to sign there. They would be better off to simply trade Dwight and Hedo to some team with cap space for nothing in return.

    Now, compare that team to a team made up of young ballers and cap space. You go to the lottery one season, get a good lottery pick, and have mega cap space to sign someone nice to play with all your young ballers.

    It's bigger than just Bynum and Dwight. For Orlando to get better with Dwight gone, they have to have cap space and young talent.
     
    #83 jopatmc, May 23, 2012
  4. J.R.

    J.R. Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2008
    Messages:
    114,264
    Likes Received:
    176,948
    All good and valid points. Not sure though how many teams can and/or are willing to take on Hedo. No, I don't want Hedo with the 'reward' being Pau Gasol.

    (That's why they want to drag in Houston so we can take back Hedo and Pau and send out Scola/Martin/Lowry to appease them and Orlando.)
     
    #84 J.R., May 23, 2012
  5. LabMouse

    LabMouse Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2008
    Messages:
    3,662
    Likes Received:
    251
    We take Hedo and Pau? Are you kidding me, I am done for the rockets if they are going to take both Hedo and Pau.

     
    #85 LabMouse, May 23, 2012
  6. J.R.

    J.R. Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2008
    Messages:
    114,264
    Likes Received:
    176,948
    I don't want that either. I was referring to what jopa said above
     
    #86 J.R., May 23, 2012
  7. TheFreak

    TheFreak Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 1999
    Messages:
    18,304
    Likes Received:
    3,310
    If Howard won't commit before the draft and Orlando gets offered Bynum for him, they would be dumb not to take that. Nothing better out there for them.
     
    #87 TheFreak, May 23, 2012
  8. jopatmc

    jopatmc Member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2002
    Messages:
    15,370
    Likes Received:
    390


    Yes.....there is.
     
    #88 jopatmc, May 23, 2012
  9. TheFreak

    TheFreak Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 1999
    Messages:
    18,304
    Likes Received:
    3,310
    I haven't seen it posted here if that's the case.
     
    #89 TheFreak, May 23, 2012
  10. jopatmc

    jopatmc Member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2002
    Messages:
    15,370
    Likes Received:
    390

    I already explained why Orlando would be dumb to take Bynum for Dwight straight up.

    1. Bynum is not as good as Dwight. They become a slightly worse team. Possibly 8 seed in the East, possibly #10-#14 in the lottery. They win nothing and they don't dump any contracts. They just wind up a little bit worse than last season with the same crappy contracts that they have to wait to unwind.

    2. Bynum is on an expiring contract. They have to run the risk of getting him to agree to sign an extension. Knowing Bynum and his work ethic, I would be willing to bet he won't sign an extension. He'll hold out for free agency to get 4 or 5 years. So, then Orlando has to turn around and deal him midseason because Bynum will want to leave and go to a contender, except they get far less for Bynum than they do for Dwight.



    Orlando won't trade Dwight for Bynum straight up. It doesn't help them.
     
    #90 jopatmc, May 23, 2012
    Last edited: May 23, 2012
  11. faraza84

    faraza84 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2007
    Messages:
    1,088
    Likes Received:
    71
    I just saw that they are considering shaq ad magic gm. I hope I read wrong wth. Shaq and Dwight get along, hopefully if he gets the job he trades em for peanuts.
     
    #91 faraza84, May 23, 2012
  12. plutoblue11

    plutoblue11 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2006
    Messages:
    10,528
    Likes Received:
    1,011

    It's not necessarily dumb, as it could be risky. In my opinion, it's more so about Bynum's injury history than anything. Moreover, if Bynum walks, they had have a ton of cap space in 2013. That's when alot of their salaries are coming off the books. There's nothing wrong with starting with a clean slate without Dwight. Most likely, their team is going to be mediocre, regardless of who they get.

    You also do not know if Bynum would enjoy being "King in a Smaller Pond." He has no reason to turned down a really big contract and give one season, where the team is going to build around him, as the centerpiece. The 2013 Free Agent class is actually going to be one of the deepest ones, since 2010.

    Their future outlook does not look any more optimsitic or less bleak, whether they trade Dwight Howard for lesser pieces versus letting him walk. It looks like they are going to be mediocre, anyway unless they get a prime time player or some really good pieces in return.
     
    #92 plutoblue11, May 23, 2012
  13. TheFreak

    TheFreak Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 1999
    Messages:
    18,304
    Likes Received:
    3,310
    Bynum just said the other day that he'll play anywhere as long as he gets paid. I assume that would include Orlando. He's as close to Howard as you can get, younger, and MUCH better offensively. Without Bryant jacking up so many shots he'd be even better. Who cares if they don't dump any contracts, they still get Bynum, and don't have to wonder whether or not their franchise guy even wants to be there. They're not looking to be helped, they're looking to salvage what they can from a bad situation. Short of getting the #1 pick in the draft, this is the best they can do. You're not going to get anything better than a 24-yo skilled, potentially dominant 7-footer like Bynum. The guy just put up 19/12/2 and is only 24. It's a no-brainer.
     
    #93 TheFreak, May 23, 2012
  14. jtr

    jtr Member

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2011
    Messages:
    7,470
    Likes Received:
    275
    I have to ask why anyone would trade for Amare? He is not insurable and the team would be a misstep away from having to eat all of Amare's contract.
     
    #94 jtr, May 23, 2012
  15. jopatmc

    jopatmc Member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2002
    Messages:
    15,370
    Likes Received:
    390
    LOL.

    They will have over $30 million in salary cap space wrapped up in 5 players.........Hedo, Big Baby, JRich, Duhon, and QRich, plus whoever they pick up with their draft pick(s) this year. And that's if they don't add any salaries this season. So, they've got to sign a bunch of junk to 1-year deals for this year just to get to 2013 offseason with that $28 million of cap space.

    Now, at that point, who are they going to sign then that makes them contenders??? No one. They may be able to trade for salary from some team wanting to dump salary. Remember, you have to have at least 85% of the salary cap at a minimum. So, if they get to 2013 with $25-$28 million of cap space, they won't be able to sign anyone of any significance, but they will be able to trade for players that teams want to dump salary. Where does all that leave them?

    It's plum ridiculous. If a team is going to contend in the East, they have to be built to beat Miami. That means they gotta get superstar players at the point guard and big man positions, and very good swing men that can defend their hind ends off and shoot the 3-ball. What can Orlando do to get there?

    What people don't understand is after Dwight and DWill are gone and CP3 signs his extension, the next superstar type franchise-changing type players are going to be drafted. There won't be any of them free for another couple years. There's only so many franchise type players out there. So, what that means for teams that are going to compete is they are going to have to build like Indiana, multiple really good players at every position on the floor on value contracts and go after Miami with waives of depth.
     
    #95 jopatmc, May 23, 2012
  16. J.R.

    J.R. Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2008
    Messages:
    114,264
    Likes Received:
    176,948
    http://www.sheridanhoops.com/2012/05/24/exclusive-magic-are-ready-to-trade-howardf-howard/

    http://www.cbssports.com/nba/blog/ken-berger/19145985/magic-to-begin-scheduling-gm-interviews-friday

    <blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p>Spoke to a few people. Everything I'm hearing is that the <a href="https://twitter.com/search/%2523Magic">#Magic</a> have not decided to trade Dwight Howard. . . .</p>&mdash; Josh Robbins (@JoshuaBRobbins) <a href="https://twitter.com/JoshuaBRobbins/status/205785195452964864" data-datetime="2012-05-24T22:19:48+00:00">May 24, 2012</a></blockquote>
    <script src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
    <blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p>. . . The new GM/Pres of Basketball Ops, after he's hired, will speak to D12 &amp; explain his vision for future to D12 . . .</p>&mdash; Josh Robbins (@JoshuaBRobbins) <a href="https://twitter.com/JoshuaBRobbins/status/205785679924441088" data-datetime="2012-05-24T22:21:44+00:00">May 24, 2012</a></blockquote>
    <script src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
    <blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p>. . . Howard's response will help dictate what the team does next.</p>&mdash; Josh Robbins (@JoshuaBRobbins) <a href="https://twitter.com/JoshuaBRobbins/status/205786035106484224" data-datetime="2012-05-24T22:23:08+00:00">May 24, 2012</a></blockquote>
    <script src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
    <blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p>. . . CEO Martins already said publicly the team won't go thru another season of D12 uncertainty.</p>&mdash; Josh Robbins (@JoshuaBRobbins) <a href="https://twitter.com/JoshuaBRobbins/status/205786376090828800" data-datetime="2012-05-24T22:24:30+00:00">May 24, 2012</a></blockquote>
    <script src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
     
    #96 J.R., May 24, 2012
    Last edited: May 24, 2012
  17. plutoblue11

    plutoblue11 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2006
    Messages:
    10,528
    Likes Received:
    1,011
    You proved part of my point right there. They gotta get superstars at the point guard and big man position, very good swing men that can defend/shoot the 3ball to even have a chance with a team like the Heat. From the deals that have been proposed by many posters and possibly the Rockets management from the last trade deadline. The Rockets have almost no players who fit that bill. Moreover, you even mentioned that they had to get franchise players. Isn't that what Bynum is on his way to becoming a franchise center. Risky, because of his injury history.

    Why is it dumb trade straight up for Bynum, per say, or even Bynum with filler player? You claim, because he could opt out, but any player that they receive could opt over the next 2-3 seasons, that's just the nature of the beast. What if the Magic are able to get him to sign an extension, before he becomes a free agent. It's pure speculation, if he opts or not.

    The team stays somewhat competitive by getting the next best big man in the NBA. They have a better chance of becoming a contender with Bynum, or having a high profile free agent sign with them versus them getting package of Scola/Patterson/Martin/Lowry/Dalembert (whatever else the Rockets come up with), Lopez (whatever else the Nets have to offer, or anything that Golden State has to offer. There's no star appeal (someone who can put some butts in the seats), and you are still left with a team that is only scrapping for a 6th or 7th seed in the East. Most of all, you cannot build around any of these players, unless you go the Indiana route. Funny thing about Indy is, they also have a fairly good well-rounded center in Hibbert.

    With Bynum, at least you are getting equal (to near equal) value for Howard in production (worse defensively, better offensively). He's also player you can sell to the fans/public to give them, some kind of encouragement to come to games or buy season tickets. That's not going to happen in any other deal, unless they get the Jordan/Grifin duo from the Clippers. It makes sense to at least try to hold onto Bynum.

    You even said yourself that they have no remote chance at other superstars/franchise players. So, should they just settle for mediocre pieces and try to compete that way.

    Right now, Miami seems like juggernaut, but Orlando can be a contender in the East with Bynum. After Miami, Chicago, and Indiana, there's a huge drop-off in the East.


    Most of those players start to come off the books after next summer and 2014. Again, it's slow process, but at the same time, if you are able to get a player, like Bynum it still helps the team overall.
     
    #97 plutoblue11, May 24, 2012
    1 person likes this.
  18. TheFreak

    TheFreak Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 1999
    Messages:
    18,304
    Likes Received:
    3,310
    Bynum is the best they can do. If LA offers it, their new front office would be fools not to take it.
     
    #98 TheFreak, May 24, 2012
  19. plutoblue11

    plutoblue11 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2006
    Messages:
    10,528
    Likes Received:
    1,011
    Again, like you said that trading Bynum straight up for Howard is risky, the deal that you proposed is risky and speculative.


    4 (mid-round to low first round) picks - not quite as intriguing. I don't see any future stars, while those players could easily turn into irrelevant picks. If it were two top 10 or 12 picks, maybe. Coming from Houston, they start at #14 and go down.

    There's no Andrew Bynum in there, or even a future star. Young talent for Kevin Martin and/or Scola, again that's wishful thinking. Is it established young talent or is potential talent. Will it help Orlando get a young player, like Bradley Beal, Eric Gordon, Kyrie Irving, Ricky Rubio, James Harden, or etc. Probably not.

    They are only stuck with Hedo's contract for two more seasons (at most), could only end up being on year and its off the books next summer (depending on the circumstances).

    http://www.orlandopinstripedpost.co...gic-2013-nba-free-agent-salary-cap-chris-paul

    I really do not understand the logic in it's dumb for the Magic to have Bynum as long term deal or even rental (if he opts out), yet it's good idea for the Rockets to have Howard as rental (and WISH ON EVERY STAR in the UNIVERSE that he resigns with the Rockets). Even though, the Rockets are losing way more assets in the process. The Magic are not losing any extraordinary assets beyond Dwight Howard who most likely walks anyway, after next summer.



    Maybe, Howard will shock the world and end this madness by signing another contract with the Magic.
     
    #99 plutoblue11, May 24, 2012
  20. J.R.

    J.R. Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2008
    Messages:
    114,264
    Likes Received:
    176,948
    <iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/AyyZ3d_gNV0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
     
    #100 J.R., May 24, 2012
(You must log in or sign up to post here.)
Page 5 of 7

Share This Page