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Trayvon Martin

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by Rocket River, Mar 10, 2012.

  1. mc mark

    mc mark Member

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    but you can shoot them

    got it
     
  2. bigboi

    bigboi Member

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  3. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Member

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    Because the account of Martin running from Zimmerman is unclear. Further according to Martin's GF he said he wasn't going to run. Next consider that it was dark and raining. According to Zimmerman's account he lost sight of Martin at one point so it is just as likely that Martin lost sight of Zimmerman so that they were both much closer than either believed they were.

    As noted though the evidence doesn't prove either way who started the physical altercation. It shows that there was one and that Zimmerman got the worst of it. That taken alone doesn't prove self-defense.
     
  4. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Member

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    Just to follow on this post. If Martin had survived I suspect that he would also have to justify his actions as self-defense. The problem though is that even if Martin might have been in the wrong doesn't automatically mean that Zimmerman is in the right. My own guess is is that the confrontation was mutual in terms that it started verbally and neither backed down.
     
  5. Bandwagoner

    Bandwagoner Member

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    It shows Zimmerman got all of it. So I fail to see how Zimmerman starting a physical altercation is anything but speculation considering there are no injuries to back it up.
     
  6. FranchiseBlade

    Supporting Member

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    Because starting the fight may not necessarily injure Martin.
     
  7. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Member

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    Zimmerman and his supporters have put forward a few different stories.
    1. That Zimmerman followed Martin, broke off his pursuit and Martin attacked him from behind as he was going back to his car.
    2. That Zimmerman followed Martin, broke off his pursuit and Martin attacked him from the front.
    3. That Martin attacked Zimmerman at his car.
     
  8. Bandwagoner

    Bandwagoner Member

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    Like I said, the scenario of Zimmerman starting the fight is speculation without evidence. The scenario of Martin beating Zimmerman isn't.
     
  9. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Member

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    As others have noted though that might just mean that Zimmerman isn't a good fighter. Consider that Zimmerman could have taken a swing at Martin missed or Martin dodged or blocked it. Very possible since even supporters of Zimmerman acknowledge he was in poorer shape than Martin.

    This is actually an issue that comes up in martial arts in regard to self-defense and why martial artist have to be particular careful about self-defense.
     
    #5129 rocketsjudoka, May 23, 2012
    Last edited: May 23, 2012
  10. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Member

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    Beating yes but there is no evidence either about who started the fight.
     
  11. Bandwagoner

    Bandwagoner Member

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    Right, but none of these are backed by physical evidence. So your earlier statement that Zimmerman has a certain burden of proof, he has his statement and physical evidence that backs it up. The prosecution has possible scenarios and no physical evidence to back them up. In fact saying Martin was attacked first requires an explanation of the lack of physical evidence.


    If your definition of starting a fight is throwing the first punch, there is no evidence Zimmerman threw a single punch.
     
  12. juicystream

    juicystream Member

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    No known physical evidence. It may just be decided that Zimmerman's actions were threatening.
     
  13. FranchiseBlade

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    It isn't backed up by physical evidence, though no physical evidence contradicts it either.

    But witness statements can also be used to back it up.
     
  14. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Member

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    That's not necessarily true. It's clear that GZ was pursuing Martin in some shape or form. He was told not to pursue, and yet he still did. That is part of evidence for starting a fight. It's not just who swings the first punch. It's who first takes threatening action. That could simply be approaching someone.

    If someone is chasing you and you decide not to run anymore, and that person continues to close the distance and that person is not a cop or anyone who should have any reason to be chasing you (you dropped your skittles or whatever) - then I think that construes as initiating a confrontation which can be seen as initiating a fight as well in this instance.
     
  15. Bandwagoner

    Bandwagoner Member

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    The lack of any bruises contradicts a scenario that Zimmerman assaulted him.

    confrontation = fight
    Interesting.
     
  16. JuanValdez

    JuanValdez Member

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    If the prosecution had to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the homicide was not in self-defense, then you're right. His story is corroborated by physical evidence well enough to create reasonable doubt. But, the burden is not on the prosecution; it's on Zimmerman.
     
  17. Bandwagoner

    Bandwagoner Member

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    His burden is much lower than beyond any reasonable doubt.
     
  18. Anas acuta

    Anas acuta Member

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    I'll type real slow for you so you can understand this.

    Is following someone a reasonable situation where you would feel threatened enough to use force? HELL NO.

    The statute means someone coming at you with a knife or pulls a gun on you. That's a REAL THREAT. Not someone following you.

    I think some of you may still be in high school. No?
     
  19. edwardc

    edwardc Member

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    Physical evidence doesn't agree with Zimmerman or do you have some evidence the rest of us don't know about.
     

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