1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

[Webpronews & ESPN] Jeremy Lin May Not Re-Sign with the New York Knicks

Discussion in 'NBA Dish' started by plutoblue11, May 23, 2012.

Tags:
Page 4 of 6
  1. plutoblue11

    plutoblue11 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2006
    Messages:
    10,528
    Likes Received:
    1,011
    One player is a great scorer/shooter and slightly more efficient, but he did not help his team win a significant amount of more games. Most of all, what other areas of the game is he significantly better than Lin at when it comes to point guard play. He isn't as complete as Lin is, while they are only one year a part in NBA experience.

    Cleveland with Kyrie Irving were 17-34, he did not elevate the Cavs, very much. If he is so much better than Lin, how come he could improve his team's record in the win columns.

    16-10 as a starter for Lin, most of those wins were without Melo and Amare. Moreover, both teams are almost comparable in talent (if you take away those two). Another point to mention, even before Lin took over at point guard, the Knicks were as bad as the Cavs.

    Still, I have cling to argument that Lin makes his teammates better, because he's a better pure point guard than Irving, who is primarily a scorer. Even with Lin, he has some scoring ability of his own as well, maybe not quite as much as Irving, though their playmaking abilities are fairly even.
     
    #61 plutoblue11, May 23, 2012
  2. jopatmc

    jopatmc Member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2002
    Messages:
    15,370
    Likes Received:
    390
    The Knicks need to be going hard after Pau. They need to offer up Chandler/Amare for Pau and Metta and see if the Lakers bite on it.
     
    #62 jopatmc, May 23, 2012
    Last edited: May 24, 2012
  3. emjohn

    emjohn Member

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2002
    Messages:
    12,132
    Likes Received:
    567
    Amare for Pau could be interesting for both parties.

    Kobe's not going anywhere, and certainly not for that package.
     
    #63 emjohn, May 23, 2012
  4. ivanyy2000

    ivanyy2000 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2002
    Messages:
    3,153
    Likes Received:
    126
    Amare has no trading value. Can't D, can't rebound, has shaky mid range J and his production on offense end is dropping like brick. On top of all these, he has bad knees, bad back and he is owning 20 M per year.

    It is a dead contract.

     
    #64 ivanyy2000, May 23, 2012
  5. A_3PO

    A_3PO Member

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2006
    Messages:
    46,895
    Likes Received:
    12,511
    You must be clinging to drugs if you think Jeremy Lin is even close to Kyrie Irving.

    Just wow.

    Just wow.
     
    #65 A_3PO, May 23, 2012
  6. juicystream

    juicystream Member

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2001
    Messages:
    30,649
    Likes Received:
    7,212
    17-34 is a huge improvement over 19-63.

    You are crazy if you think the rosters are equivalent. Even without Amare and Anthony, they still had Tyson Chandler.

    After Lin got injured, they went 12-5. For the most part, they were beating terrible teams with Lin.

    I think Irving is more complete than you give him credit for.
     
    #66 juicystream, May 23, 2012
  7. da_juice

    da_juice Member

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2009
    Messages:
    9,315
    Likes Received:
    1,070
    Let's not forgot just how ****ty that Cavs team was. Antwan Jamison was their 2nd best offensive threat. Antwan. Jamison.
     
    #67 da_juice, May 23, 2012
  8. plutoblue11

    plutoblue11 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2006
    Messages:
    10,528
    Likes Received:
    1,011
    That's actually good trade, but for the Lakers. It might be best for them to push Amare on another team and get young pieces at forward and/or point guard for him. Sort of setup like the LA-Hou-NO trade. Example (not proposing these deal), the Lakers trade Pau Gasol to New York, while Amare is sent to a team, like the Hawks, 76ers, or etc.

    Prospective teams for Amare, though whatever happens Gasol is going to New York in most deals:

    Atlanta Hawks: Lakers receive Josh Smith, Marvin Williams
    http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=7j89k3k

    Chicago Bulls: Lakers receive Carlos Boozer, Kyle Korver, and 29th pick (possibly)
    http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=c4j9dzb

    Philadelphia 76ers: Lakers receive Andre Igoudala, Thaddeus Young, and 15th pick (possibly)
    http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=7wcfkvy

    Denver Nuggets: Lakers receive Al Harrington, Wilson Chandler, 20th Overall pick, and Chris Andersen
    http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=6rtz6dj

    Golden State Warriors: Lakers receive David Lee, Richard Jefferson, and the 7th overall pick (2012)
    http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=6v8r2qz



    The one everyone wants to see:

    Houston Rockets (if Amare ends up with the Rockets): Lakers receive Luis Scola, Kyle Lowry, and 16th Overall pick.
    http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=6tgbmcm



    Houston Rockets (if they end up with Pau Gasol): Lakers receive Amare Stoudemire; Knicks receive Patrick Patterson, Luis Scola, and Kyle Lowry (Not sure if picks would be included for Houston or the Lakers)
    http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=6scr8do

    Failed trades: Luis Scola, Kevin Martin, and Kyle Lowry put the Knicks over the luxury tax threshold limit, so the Knicks have to add other pieces to the deal.

    One noticeable pattern nearly every team that Amare went to drop off by 2 to 5 wins. Surprisingly, the Lakers only finished with less wins, when they received Amare in every other trade, they'd stayed even winning improvement, but improved in wins under the first 3 trades.


    In reality, I could see some of those teams improving with a healthy Stoudemire (mostly Denver and Golden State). Not sure about the other teams.
     
    #68 plutoblue11, May 23, 2012
  9. plutoblue11

    plutoblue11 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2006
    Messages:
    10,528
    Likes Received:
    1,011
    WOW, you keep repeating yourself.

    You must be one on drugs to think that Irving is far and away better than Lin, when in reality he's only marginally better than Lin.


    Outside of scoring, what things can he do much better than Lin?
     
    #69 plutoblue11, May 23, 2012
  10. ScriboErgoSum

    ScriboErgoSum Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2002
    Messages:
    3,150
    Likes Received:
    388
    That would be so funny to see the NY-based media go from Linsanity to Lingrate.
     
    #70 ScriboErgoSum, May 23, 2012
  11. plutoblue11

    plutoblue11 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2006
    Messages:
    10,528
    Likes Received:
    1,011
    Landry Fields, Iman Shumpert, Steve Novak, Jared Jefferies, Bill Walker, and Mike Bibby. They also beat several quality teams, during that stretch that were pretty good, the Los Angeles Lakers, Dallas Mavericks, Atlanta Hawks, Utah Jazz, and at time Minnesota Timberwolves.


    23% winning percentage (2010-11 Cavs) versus 31% winning percentage (with Kyrie Irving), that's an excellent improvement. Wouldn't you say.

    Again, I'm saying there are only about 7-8 a players that are far and away better than Lin (the poster I responded to suggested 15), and I'm simply arguing that it's not a foregone conclusion that these the players outside of the obvious (Derrick Rose, Russell Westbrook, Rajon Rondo, Steve Nash, Chris Paul, Tony Parker, and Deron Williams).

    When it comes to point guards, it's up in the air after that the top 7.
     
    #71 plutoblue11, May 23, 2012
  12. RedRedemption

    RedRedemption Member

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2009
    Messages:
    32,542
    Likes Received:
    7,752
    Why the hell would they give up Chandler and Amar'e for Pau and Kobe? Kobe and Melo on a basketball team? Jesus Christ nobody else will even be able to touch the ball.
     
    #72 RedRedemption, May 23, 2012
  13. Kojirou

    Kojirou Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2009
    Messages:
    6,180
    Likes Received:
    281
    ...
    ...
    ...
    what. Is that a serious trade?

    Everything. And I mean, everything. His Assist to turnover ratio is in fact slightly superior to Lin, and in case you didn't know, scoring's kind of important even if you're a point guard.
     
    #73 Kojirou, May 23, 2012
  14. A_3PO

    A_3PO Member

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2006
    Messages:
    46,895
    Likes Received:
    12,511
    Everything. He's also about 4 years younger. Irving looks like a superstar in the making. Lin, definitely not.

    Watch one half of Kyrie Irving and you will understand. He's not just the scorer you have him pegged to be. He has a maturity and sense of the game you see in very few 20 year-old PGs. Comparing him and Lin as if they nearly equal in talent is crazy.
     
    #74 A_3PO, May 23, 2012
  15. Carl Herrera

    Carl Herrera Member

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2007
    Messages:
    45,153
    Likes Received:
    21,575

    Nobody wants Amare and his big ass uninsurable contract.
    Nobody wants Amare And his huge ass uninsurable contract.
    Nobody wants Amare.
     
    #75 Carl Herrera, May 23, 2012
  16. Kate81

    Kate81 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2008
    Messages:
    1,953
    Likes Received:
    87
    Why is this thread 4 pages long...
     
    #76 Kate81, May 23, 2012
  17. juicystream

    juicystream Member

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2001
    Messages:
    30,649
    Likes Received:
    7,212
    That is a big improvement (And it is 33% winning percentage with Irving).

    Yeah, those aren't worse than the Cavs players, plus they had Tyson Chandler. They also gained JR Smith.

    They had Anthony when they beat the Jazz at MSG, the Jazz were 11-22 Away.
    It was a great win against the Lakers, no doubt.
    Yeah, Minnesota had a losing record at the time.
    Dallas at home with Stoudemire and Smith
    Hawks didn't have Al Horford or Joe Johnson, and the Knicks were completely healthy.
     
    #77 juicystream, May 23, 2012
  18. LCII

    LCII Member

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2006
    Messages:
    8,609
    Likes Received:
    395
    because there are people who are overrating Lin arguing against people who are underrating Lin. In reality, he's somewhere in between the skill level and talent that these two groups are putting him at.
     
    #78 LCII, May 23, 2012
  19. Carl Herrera

    Carl Herrera Member

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2007
    Messages:
    45,153
    Likes Received:
    21,575
    How long would you prefer it to be?
     
    #79 Carl Herrera, May 23, 2012
  20. Krizzle

    Krizzle Member

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2012
    Messages:
    1,722
    Likes Received:
    67
    he'll get around

    16 pts
    5 rbs
    7 ast

    at best
     
    #80 Krizzle, May 23, 2012
(You must log in or sign up to post here.)
Page 4 of 6

Share This Page