Short of a one year rental, Gasol may be as good as we can do. I just don't think we have the required numbness to out tank the Wiz and the Hornets. They are world class at tanking. I don't believe that if we got rid of Dally and Martin and Camby and Scola we could even approach those tanking kingpins. If you want I could post some of my rank speculation of what it would take for us to trade up in this years draft. I really don't see any circumstances that would get us a really good chance at Davis, the only sure fire star in this years draft class IMHO.
We're sitting here, and we're supposed to be talking bout a franchise player, and we're talking about Gasol. I mean listen, we're sitting here talking about Gasol, not a franchise player, not a franchise player, not a franchise player, but we're talking about Gasol. Not the franchise player that we should be going out there and dying for and playing every game like it's our last but we're talking about Gasol man. How silly is that? .... Now I know that I'm supposed to lead by example and all that but I'm not shoving that aside like it don't mean anything. I know it's important, I honestly do but we're talking about Gasol. We're talking about Gasol man. We're talking about Gasol. We're talking about Gasol. We're not talking about the franchise player. We're talking about Gasol. When you come to the arena, and you see the Rockets play, you've seen the Rockets play right, you've seen the Rockets give everything we've got, but we're talking about Gasol right now. ... Hey I hear you, it's funny to me too, hey it's strange to me too but we're talking about Gasol man, we're not even talking about the franchise player, where it actually matters, we're talking about Gasol ... How the hell can we make this team better by going after Gasol? -Allen Iverson
I hope you feel better now that you have gotten that off your shoulders. In response I refer you to my analysis at 9:55 because it is a long post and I see no reason to put it up a second time. And I ask again - where is the flaw in my reasoning? Why would it not work? And please don't push me some platitude that McHale could never make it work. I think that he would take Gasol and play just that offense. I have yet to read another plan to get us competitive. All I hear is tank and I covered tanking in an earlier post. Or trade for a 1 year rental of Howard, which, to me, is repugnant to say the least.
For someone declaring some sort of war on posters not backing up their thoughts with factual evidence, you just shot your credibility in the face. Pau Gasol is terrified of being shipped out. He was bothered by it in December, and let the prospect mess with him all the way up to the deadline. Bynum is the guy that could care less about moving, as he would love an opportunity to be a no conditions number one option. In that case, the team is better off selling off players in a firesale, stinking, and rebuilding. Gasol, at best, delays a rebuilding movement and gives the Nets our 2013 draft pick in return for a first round sweep at the hands of OKC.
Let me refer you to post 272 and the ones immediately following that (5-13-2012). You're entitled to your opinion, I have no problem with it. I just think this topic has been beaten to a pulp. I'm actually surprised this thread is still going on...which is why I posted the comment. A little laugh wouldn't hurt would it?
This is my opinion too, but I haven't done rigorous research to back up my analysis, so I'll remain quiet.
Pau packed it in for Memphis. He doesn't want to play here, and threw a fit to stay in LA. Why the hell would we want that? I dont know what the man crush some folks have for Gasol. He's a lateral move, that's it. And the idea we'd be bringing in someone else to compliment him is laughable. People are frustrated with mediocrity yet thats exactly what the Lakers were against OKC. Pau, Kobe, and Gasol couldnt stack up against DURANT, WESTBROOK, and HARDEN. LA was a mediocre team who got their asses handed to them by a far superior younger team. What makes people think that Gasol would have ever brought us over the hump. We'd be complaining about another series lost, and a old soft center. Thanks but no thanks.
1. Pau's not commanding double teams that often, and Scola doesn't command them at all. 2. Then why is Pau so upset about trade rumors? Trading Pau is just as likely going to suck out his soul. Bynum hates playing with Kobe, not Pau. 3. Of course, Bynum also makes it easier on Pau, drawing away the toughest big each game. On his own, Pau routinely gets pushed around, something that caused problems in Memphis and in several playoffs as a Laker. No one benefited more when Perkins was hurt in the Finals - without that injury, Lakers lose a second time to the Celtics. 4. He brings everything Camby does on D? No he doesn't. Not at all. I'm really wondering if you watched any of these games live. Pau is sluggish and half-hearted on defense. 5. Who cares but you? 6. We weren't willing to give them Lowry a year ago, but we are now that Pau's value dropped? What? 7. That's your opinion.
LOL. I completely agree with shooting myself in the face. I read it and tried to figure out how to get a modifier like IMHO in there but could not get it edited. My bad. But I still think the point is valid. Kobe turned on Gasol, the Lakers are a comically bad circus, and the media is calling for Pau's head. He has got to be feeling pretty low about now. And the Buss family is shedding payroll as fast as they can. We can take $10 million of that burden. Gasol is a smart guy and has given no indication that he is ready to retire from basketball. The writing may be on the wall. But again in the 9:55 am post I laid out why I thought that Gasol would fit so well with the Rockets Can we beat OKC and the Spurs with that lineup? Unknown. But I think it puts us way ahead of the Pacer's, the Lakers, Boston, the Clips and the Griz. I actually thought is was the start of remaking the Rockets franchise in the Spurs image. Which is probably the way to go.
If Gasol was 25 years of age and making roughly half of what he's making now, I'd consider it. If you want to build a franchise to compete in the long haul, you'd be better off going after the younger and cheaper Bynum. Sure, Bynum is somewhat of a mercurial character, but he brings far more to the table than Gasol. While I'm not saying the Rockets should, but a player like him makes far more sense at this point. At some point you just have to be realistic and honest with yourself. Are the Rockets going to be able to compete in the short term? No. They aren't. They are even close to being able to compete with some of the younger up and coming teams (i.e. Bulls, Thunder, Clippers, Grizzlies, Pacers) and it's going to take a lot more than an aging Gasol to get it done. Second, you are banking on the hope that Morey will be able to assemble a team that can compete in a 2 year time frame if you think Gasol is going to be an integral part of your title aspirations. hate to break it to you, but all of the blue chip pieces are already locked in long-term with contenders (with the exception of Howard). Gasol's expiration date is coming up, unless Morey has this incredible plan (and we've already seen how "successful" he's been in pulling in the big fish these past 3 years) that will miraculously pull the Rockets from perennial lottery losers to "Thunder Crushers" and "Heat Coolers", I don't see how this move would benefit us in the short term OR the long run.
Did you even look at your own link? Pau had his lowest PER in years - since his Memphis days. Tied for the 2nd lowest efficient FG% of the year. Second lowest eFG% of his career. Tied for the second lowest FG% of his career. Lowest PPG and points per 36 minutes in his career. Second lowest blocks per 36 minutes of his career. His rebounding numbers remain solid. That's the regular season. Similarly, if you look at the stats, he had the worst playoff performance of his career, coming on the heels of the second worst playoff performance of his career last year. Look, I actually like the guy. He seems like your average, nice guy. I'd likely be somewhat similar to him if I was in his position, because, like him, I just don't operate in the same way as guys like MJ and Kobe do - super competitive. Frankly, I'd get annoyed by Kobe. If you've read Gasol's story you know he's a pretty intelligent guy. Has other aspirations in life as well. I think he's just "tired". Not in a he's no good anymore way. Despite his deterioration, he IS still a solid big. But he doesn't appear to have what he used to have. He's got the 2 rings. He's been a multiple time all-star. Etc. I think he's just a little mentally drained, and physically, as an aging big, tired. Would a trade rejuvenate him? Maybe. A trade to the Rockets? I don't see it. And no matter the level of rejuvenation, he won't be what he once was going forward. He only has 2 years left on his contract. But at $19 million a year, that's really expensive. So it comes down to how much has the asking price dropped? Because clearly you offer way less than you did last year.
If Pau were 25 and making 10m then he would be unattainable (except for Kwame and Pau II). You suggest tanking. They had that option and blew it - - big time! So, what can be done? Pau for Lowry, Scola, Bud with Dragic resigned to lead the break. Yes, I'd do that but perhaps either or both of Kups and DM the GM wouldn't? But, to become relevant Owner Alex must, yea must, be willing to overpay into taxhood IMHO. Which means good quality players with ridiculous contracts.
Nice - thank you for the input. 1. If you watch closely when Scola is down on the block he generally gets doubled off of Dally/Camby. Against most match ups Scola is a real tough cover 1 on 1. Crafty with plenty of low post moves. The double does not reach him immediately and when it hits he sometimes has difficulty passing out of it. But the double is usually there. Pau on the other hand is almost an impossible cover for most centers in the league. If Pau gets the ball in the low post there is almost always 3 big defenders, 1 covering Bynum and one covering Pau and 1 shading to Pau. The problem for the Lakers is that unless Bynum comes off the block it becomes very crowded. A more fitting set is the low block iso of Gasol. And given his size when the double team comes he has no difficulty finding the open man. 2. Gasol is not a head case. There was an unfortunate taped interview immediately after the announcement which led to the Odom comparisons. Pau has been a model NBA player for his entire career. He is a professional and I don't expect him to pout long after a trade. How anyone would let that initial emotional outburst color their judgement is beyond me. 3. Pau has spent the last 5 years playing center for the Lakers when Bynum was hurt. That was a lot of minutes at center. And he really did an admirable job. I really have no worries there. 4. I watch a lot of BB. I made a valiant attempt to separate out Pau Gasol center play on the stats sites, but to no avail. The only thing I could get is a year by year total comparison. Center to PF comparisons are not apples to apples but if you will accept yearly defensive rankings composites and compare Camby to Gasol, the ratings are very favorable to Gasol. http://www.hoopsstats.com/basketbal...s-lakers/players/pau-gasol/rankings/12/13/185 http://www.hoopsstats.com/basketbal...azers/players/marcus-camby/rankings/12/25/362 Any number of the various stat sites will give you a flavor of the comparison. 5. Hey - I said as much. What is your problem with that? 6. One of Lowry or Dragic must go. Just seemed convenient, providing we can resign Dragic. Other options exist of course. 7. You don't agree?
I'm not suggesting we tank, but is tanking better than going after Gasol at this point? Yes, it is. All I'm saying is that there are better options out there than allotting more than a third of your salary cap to a player that isn't going to do much for your team especially if you don't have any other pieces. Not only that, he's going to hinder your rebuilding efforts going forward in the long run. It's a huge short-sighted gamble. Here's my alternative approach: For instance, if the Rockets were to set their sights on obtaining a Roy Hibbert or even a James Harden instead of going after Pau Gasol. How am I wrong for thinking the Rockets could and should go after such targets as I see the upside in them, especially for a team that is nowhere near a state of contention. With Pau Gasol, you would be forced to build a contender with him as one of your main pieces within the next two years. I just don't see how feasible that is considering the fact that there are far more competitive teams out there that are built to win now. In case the Rockets aren't able to put together a team to contend for the title in the course of the next two or three years, you would still have young cornerstones to build your team upon.
Of course I looked at the stats. I think that the final game of the season says it all. Kobe 33 shot attempts and ZERO assists. That pretty much sums up the Lakers this season. Everybody's PER is going to suffer big time. Much of PER is dependent on team play and if you are running a 1 trick pony it is going to look bad. I actually am surprised it held up so well. He does have 19 million a year left. And we have the cap to spend. Any suggestions as to how else to use it? I guess we could wait until 2013 and try to get into bidding wars for Harden and Ibaka etc. It would be a valid use of the money.
Hibbert is a restricted FA and you better believe he is up for a match big time. No chance there. Harden is not available until 2013. At this point it seems a long long way off.
Merely suggestions, but that is the route the Rockets should be headed in instead of these band-aid solutions that we'll have to patch up once again in 2 years. Look, a lot of people are suggesting we part ways with Scola and Lowry for Gasol. Does Gasol contribute a lot more than Scola...well, definitely not $10 million per year more than Scola. When you toss Lowry into the fray, that is more than enough justification to say that the deal isn't worth it. The production of BOTH those players far outweighs what Gasol could bring to the Rockets and the sad part is Gasol makes more than both their salaries combined. The Rockets would be picking up the check and getting less production for roughly $20 million a year. How does that make any sense whatsoever? If you are going to trade a piece like Lowry, you better be getting good return for him. He's the type of asset that a lot of GMs would want. A young and talented PG whose contract doesn't break the bank. He's due under $6 million over the course of the next 3 seasons and is a legitimate starting PG in the NBA. That is a heck of a bargain. Gasol is getting paid like a superstar, but he simply doesn't produce like a superstar at nearly $20 million a season. You can afford 3 Lowry's for crying out loud. Earlier you had mentioned the Rockets modeling their blueprint after a team like the Spurs. I concur. But, you don't chase 32 year old PF/C that are due $20 million a year. If the Rockets wanted to follow the Spurs, they should have just tanked the season and gone after Anthony Davis. The Spurs have been relevant ever since they got Duncan in 97'. Fifteen years later and we are still talking about the Spurs being at the top. Pau Gasol is not the solution to our problems. It would be a very near-sighted move by the Rockets in an attempt to appease a fanbase that is growing impatient with the team's lack of success. It's a knee-jerk reaction and the best band-aid solution that Daryl Morey could come up with at the time. The Rockets are not built to compete in the upcoming seasons. It's better to sit these next 3-5 seasons and let the Heat and Thunder go at it. When the Wade, James, and Bosh are getting old, then the Rockets will be able to compete with their young franchise cornerstones and NOT a 37 year-old Gasol.
