Would you be happy or sad if the Rockets resemble the Pacers in a couple of years?

did I say they weren't?

 

Yawn. BLAH, BLAH, BLAH.........FRIGGIN BLAH!

<table id="post6856990" class="tborder" border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="100%" align="center"><tbody><tr><td class="alt1" id="td_post_6856990" style="border-right: 1px solid #ffffff" height="100%" valign="top" width="100%">They're making noise in the playoffs and we're at home for the 3rd year in row. It is what it is. We just have to get better, period. No more "almost had him" phantom trades, moral victories or excuses. Just get better.
</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="alt2" style="border: 1px solid #ffffff; border-top: 0px"> </td> </tr></tbody></table>

 

Maybe we're overrating our talent?

 

Maybe so.

Obviously, there are many ways to approach this situation, but judging from recent history (last 3 years) we don't exactly have much to show for as a team that is supposedly overflowing with "assets". You would think that our accumulation of assets over the course of the last 3 years would have at least gotten us to the playoffs once. Either progress isn't being made or other teams are simply doing more than we are and have better assets in place.

 

Perhaps injuries to Kyle Lowry and Kevin Martin were strong contributors to us being at home. They really aren't that different from us.

 

We are making progress... but guess what there is still the same dominant teams above us( lakers/thunder/mavs/griz/recently clips were stuck with utah denver portland minnesota ... progress is a slow step unless your the clip(should of been us instead)... but we have progressesed more than who were equal with and we have no star or borderline star... utah had boozer... denver traded melo to be were there at now... portland has aldridge...minnesota sucked forever to have rubio and lov and williams... we havent sucked at all lately and yet were are exactly the same as all those teams... good but not great... i dont mind running mediocrity treadmill as long as we take the next step... if we dont ill be pissed... but minny/portland/utah/denver dont have a brighter future than us and they all had to go thru a boring tanking season....

 

The West is tough. Rockets would have been in the last three years of they played in the East.

 

Huh?

1) Minnesota has both Love and Rubio and a big reason they performed as badly as they did was because Rubio tore his ACL. I would say Rubio and Love make for pretty decent cornerstone pieces.

2) Portland has LaMarcus Aldridge, who is one of the premiere 4's in the league. Not only that they posses Pick #6 and Pick #11 in this years NBA Draft.

3) The Jazz made the playoffs this year, but I would say they have a very nice young nucleus right now. They have an All-Star in Al Jefferson, a very underrated Paul Milsap, not to mention a still developing Derrick Favors and Gordon Hayward. I'm not sure how Enes Kanter is going to pan out, but he's just a rookie.

4) The Nuggets on the other hand just took the Lakers to 7 games. They have Gallinari and a myriad of young talent (Lawson, Afflalo, Chandler, Faried) not to mention the current rave of the forum--JeVale McGee, and you are saying they don't have a bright future?


I think all of these teams have the potential to be pretty solid in a few years. Not to mention the fact that 2 of these teams made the playoffs this year.

 

Folks who want to compare the Rockets to Indy in terms of their "rebuilding" efforts need to remember this:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/IND/

Indy has been "rebuilding" since 2004, when their contending team (won 61 games the year before) was wrecked by the Artest/Jackson fight at the Palace and subsequent suspensions.

Since then, they have won between 32 and 44 games for 7 straight years and went through many iteration of players, most of whom are not with the team any more (Granger is the only one left really, they've gone from Tinsely, Jackson to Murphy+Dunleavy to Hibbert, Collison, etc.). This season is the first time they won more than 60% of their games (their wining % would have netted them a 52 or so wins in a normal season).

The Rockets last had a good 50+ win team in 2009. That team was decimated by injury and required rebuilding (funny enough, Ron Artest was also on this team). They are 3 seasons into this effort and have won a little more than 50% of their games each season.

Trying to rebound back from the loss of your best players takes a lot of effort. Remember, 3 seasons into the Pacers' effort to bounce back from the Auburn Hills episode, their team looked like this: http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/IND/2007.html

 

They all sucked at one point... they all tanked at one point... they all went thru a sh!tty season at one point... and guess where there at mediocrity... sure there in the playoffs (some of them) but they arent elite... houston is a little less on wins but theyre future isnt any less bright... we have a better cap space and draft picks than all of them(except portland... and i give theyre gm all the credit in thw world... he should be gm of year... wallace for only top3 protected... robberrrryy!!!) Minnesota has lota of talent but they sucked for yeaarss!!!!!! Portland sucked for yearrss!!!! Denver sucked, in turn got melo, in Turn traded him for loottss of depth... utah overall solid front office work especially since they lost boozer... but none of them are overly better or gonna contend for a ring.more then the rockets... yet we never sucked after getting yao...sure were mediocre but so are all them... and some of tem have superstar quality...

 

I guess what im trying to say is morey is trailblazing a new way to rebuild... if the pacers get it done first im sure hell get credit first and rightfully so... but tanking or trading for a superstar isnt the only way to win... atleast thats what i hope... because thats what i will have to witness with les and morey or be saddenned by failure...

 

None of this is coherent and you contradict yourself all over the place.

I'm not exactly sure what you are getting at, but I'm pretty sure all of the bolded areas support what I just said.

-I'm pretty sure none of those teams that you mentioned actually tanked (maybe with the exception of Minnesota a few years back). The Jazz and Nuggets had been running on the mediocrity treadmill, but their rosters are vastly improved and definitely competitive going forward.

-Portland has lost Roy and Oden within a calendar year, yet they still have a All-Star PF that MOSTteams would covet. He certainly is more of a cornerstone piece than anything the Rockets have on their roster, not to mention the fact that they have 2 lottery picks to go with picks #40 and #41 in this year's draft.

-The T-Wolves have played the lottery many-a-times, but things are finally looking up for them. I think the Rockets would probably give up just about anything/everything on their roster for Love and/or Rubio. They actually have there franchise cornerstones in place.

I'm not exactly sure what to tell you man. At some point the organization has to decide what course of action they need to take to improve the team. Not only has the team not made the playoffs in 3 seasons, they've struck out on every single star-caliber acquisition they've attempted to make (Melo, Gasol, Howard, Stoudamire, etc). Maybe our pieces just aren't attractive enough? I think had some point the organization has to realize that maybe their strategy just isn't working and tanking might just be our best shot at landing a star. You won't know if you don't try.

 

1st off, great thread, but I disagree with your assesment of the grizz and hawks. I think the grizz are better than the pacers. If they played 7 games, the grizz wouldn't make the playoffs. In terms of the hawks, they're only a move or 2 from being a serious player in the east and they have a huge trade chip in josh smith.

Overral, the rox need to just settle down and build. Developing your own players would also help a lot too. Mostly I agree with getting 3 near all star types and fill the roster with other good players.

 

Not sure if your comments were for me, but I saw that i was quoted.

I totally agree with you on your assessment of the Grizzlies. These were my thoughts on the Pacers from an earlier post on the thread:

------

The Pacers are currently in a better position than the Rockets to compete for a title, but I honestly don't envy the Pacers current situation. I envy the Heat and Thunder situations far more and honestly I don't even consider the Pacers a threat at all to the elite teams in the NBA. Everybody knows that the Pacers are going to be a decent playoff team for a next couple of years, but won't be threatening the crown anytime soon. Even though the Pacers have a stronger core than the Rockets, they are still miles and miles away from actually catching the Heat and it's kinda sad because their best player's (Danny Granger) best years happen to coincide with the prime years of the Heat trio and it's gonna take a lot more than Roy Hibbert and David West to get the job done. While they definitely have some nice young chips in Paul George and Darren Collison, those two don't exactly strike me as the complimentary pieces for a championship contender. Solid role pieces, but not exactly superstar material. With players gravitating towards the big cities, bright lights, and other star talent, a lot of things are going to have to happen before the Pacers ever get a shot at a title.

While the Pacers are certainly better equipped to combat the near future than the Rockets, I don't exactly envy their situation as their are other teams in the league that are just as young and have more talent to compete for a title (i.e. Thunder, Clippers, Bulls (we'll see about Rose), and to a lesser degree the Clippers and the Grizzlies). If the Rockets became a perennial playoff team, I would certainly be happy for them but would I be satisfied with simply being a "run-of-the-mill" playoff team? No, and I don't think the Rockets should settle for that either. Over time, it's going to have the same exact effect as winning the perennial "best of the worst" award. People are going to get tired of the same old story and as fans we'll expect more and more. While I do hope the Rockets can obtain some young talent like the Pacers, I don't envy their position one bit.

If you are going to build a contender, you find the contenders and you create the blueprint that will put you in the best position to beat those teams. Nobody cares if you can beat the Pacers, the Hawks, or the Magic of the league and in the words of Ricky Bobby, "If you're not First, your Last."

-------

As for the Hawks, I think that they certainly have nice and attractive pieces, but I don't know why for whatever reason they won't take that extra step to maybe obtain a top-shelf through other trades, but I'm guessing that it probably has a lot to do with their current salary cap situation and how much money they have invested in Joe Johnson. They are formidable, but I think the clock is definitely ticking for them as there have been reports that Smith wants to leave and Johnson isn't getting any younger. While they definitely are better than the Rockets, for whatever reason, they've stayed rather quiet as far as off-season acquisitions and FA signings are concerned and are pretty stuck being a "run-of-the-mill" playoff team until they decide to do something about it.

 

We are really only two players away from that now. Another good two way wing player and another young defensive center.

 

We are a 7'2" center away from being the pacers... buti still stay optomistic... maybe because ive been drinking??? Who knows...

But atlanta.. why havent they tried to get too talent via trade? They are similiar to us in they are a big metropolia yet considerred a small market....yet, they got better trade chips... they could offer up horford josh smith and filler for dwight... they would still be stuck with jojo and marvin williams contract but jojo and dwight would be solid core to build with...

 

In my drunken stuper i was trying to say tankin isnt the way togo per se... k.love/rubio i dont see winnin a ring... aldridge i dont see winnin one....dont see memphis either.... so they sucked for years to get really good players but still dont contend...lakers havent tanked they just offer bright lights aling with sound trades... id rather try and acquire a star via trade while fielding an admirable squad rather than be the laughin stock for 5 years...

Edit: I do like portlands position alot tho... aldridge is a beast and still growing in his potential... same with batum who is a very nice piece...plenty of cap space to sign a fa big like hibbert,asik,mcgee,kaman and a solid pg... not to mention two possible top ten picks... they are taking a sliw and long journey but atleast theyre tank is lookin good...

 

Yeah they are. hibbert alone is better than all of our centers.

 

And thats it. Other than Hibbert, that is all they have seperating them from us.

 

i'd be happy and then i'd realise their a fundamental difference between winng regular season games & maybe a round of the playoffs and winning the title and i'd end up crying

but back to the original post our ceiling right now without a superstar added to the roster is what the Pacers have