If tyson got 12-14, ibaka will get above 10 easily starting. He is young as hell and just defensively that good. As for harden, is he a max player to me? no. I think max players should only be the number one guys, like the lebron, kobe, and some teams have two of them like with wade, etc. Big men always get paid above market bc they are a rarity. Westbrook/Durant are two number one guys. But guys like JJohnson are really good, but not and shouldn't be max I think harden is an all star, really good player, but a no 2 guy on a team. But that said, with the way the nba works, someone will pay him max
Huh? Joe Johnson as a young player was a good passer, rebounder, defender and was decent at getting steals.
The Joe Johnson comparison is dumb. James Harden's max won't be 120 mil like Johnson's, and if anybody signs him to his eligible max, it won't be the Derrick Rose Rule max.
The difference between Johnson and Harden is that the suns are notorious for being a cheapass organization.
There are limits to how much Oklahoma can afford to pay.... Harden would give them 3 max or near max players, and they still have Perkins contract and will need to give Ibaka good money.
Nope, Joe Johnson is decent defender I wouldn't say good...same for every thing else. Joe always just been shooter. If his shot is off then he is very Martin like and will give you little else. I'd say a good is Iguodala. He's a good rebounder, defender, and passer at the 2/3 position. Joe Johnson is just alright at those things, Harden is good at those things. Don't get the Johnson comparison game wise. They have different games.
Take some risks, take some risks. Of course the downside of taking these kinds of risks is never discussed, which is you just overpaid on a player who may not be worth it. Its not enough to be just a top 15 player, you have to be good enough to make the team average at the very least (ie reach the playoffs) because the CAP is only 60M and a max salary is around 20M. That means a max player takes a large chunk of your salary and they have to be really good to make up for that much capspace. The new CBA limits spending a lot, guys like Cuban who were willing to throw away money before now is worried about flexibility, because the new luxury tax is something that most team can't pay for long. I doubt OKC will be able to retain their big 4, they can't pay Durant and WB the max, pay Perkins 12M and still be able to keep Harden and Ibaka. I think Ibaka's gone.
You don't even know Kmart's game. Kevin Martin is just an AVERAGE shooter, why do you keep talking about him like he's Ray Allen? You also didn't see Joe Johnson play when he was younger. Just a shooter? Joe Johnson could dunk, slash and defend really well when he was on the Suns, in fact the Suns were prepared to match the Hawk's ridiculous 120M offer just to keep him, and have 4 max guys on the team. If you'd compare the two JJ was actually the better player during his heyday, and even then he wasn't worth the max. Also Harden isn't a freak athlete like Iggy, he doesn't jump from near the ft line on a nightly basis like Iggy does. Harden is a skill based player, exactly like JJ.
James Harden's max should be under 15 million per year because of less than 6 years of service. I'll admit I'm not 100% on that exact number. Larry Coon's website has it listed at $12,922,194 and wikipedia has it listed at $14,511,000. Perkins' contract never goes over 10 million per season. Roughly 8.5 next season and just over 9 million after that. But you're right, they won't be able to keep them together.
this is how teams get tied into horrible contracts. randolph, lewis, j johnson.. there's a handful of players that should get max contracts (the true stars..the ones people come to watch). having a good season doesn't mean you need a 5 year 100 million contract.
*sigh* Read the post right above you. Nobody is eligible for that kind of contract with less than 6 years of service in the NBA.
There games are not quite similar, but Joe Johnson was very dynamic in his Phoenix and early Atlanta days. How often have you watch Joe Johnson, before the last couple of years, because he is much more dynamic and athletic than Kevin Martin ever was. Moreover, Harden has not done anything more exceptional in comparison to a younger Joe Johnson outside of maybe decision making and maybe a more willing passer. You cannot tell that JJ was not a great playmaker in Phoenix and his earlier Atlanta days. I do not think there much difference or will be much difference between the two players production wise. JJ, for some reason was better distributor in his youth than he is now, and was not comparable to Kevin Martin in anyway, outside of scoring ability. Kevin Martin never average over 3 assist in his career, while JJ has a career average of 4.4 and he had several seasons around six assist. Most of all, he's nowhere as passive Martin is. Moreover, even if Harden is better than Johnson across the board, he still is not the type of player that you grant a max-salary, too. Would you say Harden compares favorably to say players, like Monta Ellis, Carmelo Anthony, a younger Ginobili, Tony Parker, or a younger Ray Allen or Paul Pierce? He does not compare favorably to the best players in that group, when you are talking about a max salary and that's about the minimum you need to even consider paying a player such money.
Do you even remember Joe Johnson during his Phoenix days and before the injuries? He averaged 17 pts 5 rebounds and 3.5 assists while playing with Nash who had the ball in his hands most of the time. He was the backup PG when Nash was out or injured. His first year in Atlanta he averaged 20 points, 4 rebounds and 6.5 assists and made people think that Atlanta wasn't on crack for making that ridiculous trade. Joe Johnson is exactly who Harden is right now. Good enough to get a near max contract but its not a no brainer decision.
OKC has a great roster, but it's down there with SLC in the sorry city sweepstakes, and the great roster cuts both ways.
I think it depends on your view of max players. If you limit to guys that can single handedly take your team to the playoffs you're looking at a very small list... Lebron, Dirk, possibly a few others. His value to a team is enormous, he was also the #3 draft pick and he's only 23 years old. I think he's worth risking a max contract.
James harden isn't a max contract player but he is a very good player. The problem in PIC is that the organization decided to give Westbrook max or near max type money. They have no choice but to give Harden a comparable sized deal or risk losing him to another team. Combine that with the fact that they have to pay Ibaka as well, somebody has to bite the bullet because OKC doesn't have the cap space to sign all these guys. In terms of talent level, I would say he is on par with your Joe Johnsons and Danny grangers of the world and somebody is bound to pay a premium for his services because theycant attract top-tier talent. Again, very talented player but not a max contract type player.
Have to disagree with this one. JJ is one of the better all around shooting guards in the league. Especially a few years ago. He got complacent after that huge contract but to call him just a "shooter" is dead wrong. He's a player that can shoot, has handles, penetrates and creates for others in addition to rebounding and playing solid D. The one thing he lacked that took him to that next level is the drive, focus and killer instinct. From a pure skill-set point there's nothing JJ is missing. My concerns with Harden would be how does he adjust to being "the man" when defenses are zoned in on him. Right now he has it good with KD/WB drawing attention leaving Harden to have a field day. Also, I'm a big harden fan but he's still much too inconsitent to throw the farm at him for a lack of better terms which is what you're doing any time you give a player max money. Hypothetically speaking if we had Dwight Howard or Yao Ming like in years past I'd be interested in throwing max money at Harden and pray that it works but to give Harden max money without a solid #1 in place is crazy talk.
