So Krugman gets his sleezeball worthless ass kicked in a debate he agreed to then runs off to say debates are meaningless. What a ****ing weasel. Someone needs to take a baseball bat to this mofo. Unbelievable. http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/05/01/on-the-uselessness-of-debates/ The Conscience of a Douchebag Liberal May 1, 2012, 9:16 AM On the Uselessness of Debates A bit of meta on my “debate” with Ron Paul; I think it’s a perfect illustration of a point I’ve thought about a lot, the uselessness of face-to-face debates. Think about it: you approach what is, in the end, a somewhat technical subject in a format in which no data can be presented, in which there’s no opportunity to check facts (everything Paul said about growth after World War II was wrong, but who will ever call him on it?). So people react based on their prejudices. If Ron Paul got on TV and said “Gah gah goo goo debasement! theft!” — which is a rough summary of what he actually did say — his supporters would say that he won the debate hands down; I don’t think my supporters are quite the same, but opinions may differ. Tales of historical debates in which one side supposedly won big — like the Huxley-Wilberforce debate on evolution — are, in general, after-the-fact storytelling; the reality is that that kind of smackdown, like Perry Mason-type confessions in court, almost never happens. So why did I do it? Because I’m trying to publicize my book, which does have lots of data and facts — but those data and facts don’t matter unless I get enough people to read it.
No, this should be implemented by the people. If a Bank isn't keeping a 100% reserve, they aught to be taken to court and charged with fraud...
Okay, where were you during 2008?... Why wouldn't they? Without the Fed around forcing interest rates down, people might actually make money from a term CD... The CD is attractive because as opposed to a regular deposit the person is actually earning interest on their money. Think about it - millions of Americans put their retirement money into the stock market (which is far less predictable than a Bank CD). I have no doubt they would be willing to invest in a Bank CD if we had market interest rates... What we've done in the past 30 years or so is drastic and holds massive amounts of risk... We need to balance the budget and it has to start with ending the wars, bringing our troops home and drastically cutting military spending...
Are you talking about how you couldn't understand that lower interest rates = less savings? That isn't my fault. Or how inflation isn't uniform across the board? Inflation is caused by an increase in the money supply and depending on where the new money goes that is where higher prices will be seen. And of course Oil is a globally traded commodity and so its price also depends on worldwide demand from countries such as India/China. But inflation is a part of it also - to deny this is ridiculous... Those answers are above. I didn't think me answering those simple questions was so important to you...
I'll leave the economic stuff to Major and Northside who are better at it than me. The question still stands. Has Paul actually endorsed ending the fractional reserve banking system, or is this just you? Because I don't actually recall Paul ever saying he would end that.
Perhaps the biggest crux of the crisis in 2008 (aside from the naked CDSs) were the trading of mortgage backed securities. Banks, in their infinite greed, securitized loans and sold them to investors to get them off their balance sheets. They decided to forgo the interest income and passed the risk onto the average investor, all the while charging commissions for selling these securities. By doing this, they still profit without having to worry about capital/equity or reserve ratios. Even with a 100% reserve requirement, banks still could've easily done this. Were you aware of that? Did you even understand my corporate bond analogy? Without the stability the Fed provides and/or the guarantees of the FDIC, term CDs are no different from uninsured corporate bonds. Do people buy corporate bonds? Sure, if they have confidence in the company. Would investors buy a corporate bond from a company that can't generate a single cent of profit unless they sell tons of bonds to begin with? I doubt it. Putting a picture of the national debt up is meaningless if you don't understand the nature of the "debt." Not all government spending is good, nor is it all equal...but at the end of the day, you need to ask yourself this question. When the government usually spends, where does that money go? It ends up in the private sector right? So...in order to balance the budget and reduce the debt, the government will have to remove money from the private sector right? In an economy where unemployment is high and households are debt-laden, do you honestly think removing money from the private sector would help?
I'm actually talking about your unsubstantiated claim that the Fed is wiping away your savings. You know, the same thing I said the last time you tried to change the subject to the above. Maybe you'll try avoiding answering a 3rd time? Wow. I'm not sure you understand the basic concept of inflation. If the dollar is worth less, it's worth less - period. It's not worth less while buying one good but worth more while buying another. And yet you can't answer why its gone up pretty similarly in virtually every currency - those that printed, and those that haven't. You just keep repeating bland statements as fact and saying things like "denying this is ridiculous" despite the reality that facts don't actually support your claims. The reason it's important is that, by answering them, you demonstrate that you clearly have no idea what you're talking about - which was my point in asking them in the first place.
You're doing some good work here, Major. You have a lot more patience than I have these days, at least when it comes to this topic.
You really are having a hard time with this one? He says it in ever interview and has made "end the fed" his mantra....it's pretty much impossible to encounter Paul or one of his acolytes without hearing about the evils of debasement and seeing the glimmer of the ore flicker in their eyes within about 3 seconds.... http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...00jWntpVTgWM7gBdQ&sig2=mBdoRxKfSfGGkf2fZRjQ3A
I've given up discussing a lot of topics on the BBS because they devolve into partisan politics - but NMS is at least trying to engage in a conversation on substance. But what frustrates me is when people take such strong stances on things, but really don't take the time to learn the underlying details. With economics, it's admittedly very complex - but Ron Paul economics people bug the hell out of me because they mostly just repeat these simplistic things like "debt is bad!" and "rampant inflation!". So I've made a point to play whack-a-mole with Ron Paul economics every time I see it.
I've been "picking and choosing" what I discuss down here more than I used to. There are some very long threads that I've just stayed out of. Not because I don't have anything to say about the topic, but because I would be repeating what has already been said by others several times, and/or the topic depresses me. Like the Trayvon Martin thread, for example. 4500 replies, and you won't find one from me in there. What could I possibly add? I guess you could say I'm testing my patience. Anyway, I'm glad you're taking on Dr. Paul's supporters. You've done a good job, as has Northside Storm, among others. Kudos!
Right. The "people" will take track of how much banks lend and borrow from the daily discount window. I'm sure the banks will love being regulated by the "people" who can't quite understand how the banking system work. Are we going to create a new specialized contingent of the "people" who understand complex financial matters to replace the old bunch we arbitrarily got rid of?
Wait...so...you want the banks to go back to shadow banking? So, we have one branch of the economy with spectacular high yields, and another with basically a flat senoirage that would be the equivalent of a few basis points...and people would invest in the 100%, credit-destroying reserve banks because... Their money is about as safe as it is with FDIC insurance today?
I'm not talking about ending the Fed, I'm talking about if Paul actually thinks fractional reserve banking should be ended and banks should impose 100% reserve requirements like NMS advocates, which is a whole level of crazy even above the ridiculous idea of ending the Fed.
Its not a debate when a person comes up with **** from thin air and you have no time to check their facts. I wish they would rent Watson from IBM for all debates to call bull**** when people just make **** up..
IMO The bottom line is that most people need a type of institution where all their money can sit and do nothing if you so choose. There are people who's level of knowledge about the financial industry leads them to not caring and not wanting to care about anything more than that. They just want their money, and they want want to be sure that even if they were the 100th customer to show up out of 100 customers on a single day, they can withdraw all their money without problems. In addition, this type of institution should be non-profit. Most people don't like the idea that there's a CEO looking at the pool of money and wondering how to turn it into more money, and pocket as much of the profit as possible. The CEO's power, vantage point, and super-incentivized contract makes them uncomfortable. They don't want to worry about their money, they don't want to or can not decide which banks are better than others, they basically just want an electronic "cash under the matress" solution. They want statements. If they want to take a loan, they want the people at this place to advise them where to go. This is because they naturally know that loan approvals and loan funds should not be under the same roof. They don't want their bank having any affiliations/agreements with profit-making entities to which they are funneled. They want the motto of this place to be "we always have all your money". That's what everyday people want, and that's where most people should go. Because probably 5+ billion people in the world are not prepared to make these decisions since they don't care or they're artists or they're engineers or athletes or were never afforded the chance to learn, but they all need a place to put their money.
