That's not tanking, that's rebuilding. If your roster is bereft of talent, and you're forced to play a bunch of young unproven players, that's just being a bad NBA team. It happens. The Hornets didn't *want* to trade Chris Paul, they *had* to. But if you deliberately try to be anti-competitive, that's tanking. We've seen it happen before. Just because you're bad doesn't mean you're tanking. Nobody expected much out of New Orleans, so how can a team with low expectations "tank" in the first place?
So if the Rockets trade away their veterans for picks and don't re-sign most of their players this offseason are they tanking or rebuilding?
well the lakers were able to get chris paul for their assets in martin, dragic and scola. that was the lakers right?
Depends. Are we going to deliberately bench our best players and/or fire our coach and put in an interim stooge that doesn't know what he's doing? Are we going to take the money we saved by not resigning anybody and not do anything with it (i.e. stay as close to the cap minimum as possible)?
Rebuilding. If they do it to intentionally lose? Then its tanking. To get younger, draft picks, and a more money for future moves? Thats a complete reset. Rebuilding.
Tank or not to tank aside, on one thing we should all agree; this franchise is indisputably STUCK in neutral, STUCK! We are not moving forward, not moving backwards, going absolutely nowhere. Something has to happen! Let's face it, most fans are bandwagon fans AND there are NO bandwagon fans on this board. This is the hardcore, the rest don't worry about it, they don't talk about, they have lost interest long ago. Now if the Rockets want to win back the City, draw in new fans or get the bandwagoners back they have to do SOMETHING, and soon. We have been through hard times before, dry times, but I don't remember anything quite like this, the basketball version of purgatory.
Rebuilding. That's pretty much the definition of rebuilding. Not sure what you mean by "most of their players" though. You keep anyone who fits into the long-term plans for the team and get rid of anyone who doesn't.
I view rebuilding and tanking as very similar. I acknowledge that it is possible to rebuild without tanking, but contend that it is rarely done, and rarely if ever done exceptionally well, and in those scenarios requires just as much luck, if not significantly more than the luck required in a tank. I have two examples so far in this thread: A. Early 90's Suns - acquired Charles Barkley for 3 role players. This is an example of extreme, extreme luck. B. Indiana Pacers - highest draft pick being Paul George at 10. One, even the 10th draft pick would be better than the Rockets string of 14's. Two, there is also a pretty serious amount of luck involved here. The 2 cornerstones of that franchise today are both #17 picks I believe that dropped for various reasons. Three, not clear where even that is going to take them. Someone else brought up the Celtics trade for stars strategy. I don't view the Celtics situation before trade as akin to the Rockets today. That Celtics team was horrible, and traded the #5 pick for Ray Allen. They also had a franchise player on the roster, which the Rockets don't have. And finally, they had some luck in previously drafting both Al Jefferson out of high school, and trading for late first pick Rondo. To compare to the Rockets situation, they drafted Patterson and Morris, neither of whom have proven to be as good as Jefferson's potential. Landry might be close to comparable, but still not there. They found Brooks in the late first, and Chase and Parsons in the second - solid pickups, but not guys with potential HOF careers like Rondo. They don't have a Paul Pierce equivalent on their roster. And, perhaps most importantly, they don't have the #5 pick in the draft... that's the point! I'd feel a LOT better if this squad did have the #5 pick this year. That'd be one heck of a potential trading chip, or draft pick potential. If anything it points to what some are saying isn't possible. The one year tank and turnaround. You need to have other pieces in place, and time it right, but again that points to this year having been a solid one to tank.
We aren't going to get a fake coach and we aren't going to use the money we saved unless we can get a DWill or Gordon caliber type player.
Your kidding right???- Chicago getting Rose was about as lucky as it would be for Houston to get Anthony Davis this year. They had a 1.7% chance of winning the lottery that year. I dont want to hear about Chicago rebuilding through the draft the way your describing it. It never happened. They were not the Bobcats of 2012. They were in almost the exact same situation as the Rockets are now when they landed Rose. As for SEATTLE(not OKC. Different org.), Luck was also in play too because they were the 5th worst team in the league, and they could very well have drafted Greg Oden instead of Durant. The franchise moving had a big impact on their reasoning for dumping their stars Ray Allen and Rashard Lewis before the new ownership bought the team. They weren't trying to tank, they were trying to lower their payroll to sell the team for new ownership that aquired the team in 2006 before moving them to OKC. WAY different circumstances then tanking teams like the Bobcats, or Golden State. Whats next, you want to claim the Spurs didn't get lucky and they tanked their way to Tim Duncan? In 1996/97 they had a team that consisted of- -Avery Johnson, Vernon Maxwell, Sean Elliott, Will Purdue, Cory Alexander, Dominque Wilkins, and an injured David Robinson. You think that group of players in 1996 were considered "young" and bought into kicking the ball out of bounds to loose games and draft Tim Duncan? Or maybe it was because the West was ridiculously competitive that year, David Robinson was injured, and they just straight up got lucky in the draft the next year. What if David Robinson didnt break his foot in the 1996/97 season? These few examples of teams getting straight up lucky in the draft make you sick, but the Rockets probably have a greater chance now of getting a franchise altering player then any of those teams did those years. Its straight up luck or franchise circumstance.
I think Morey pretty much has gotten on my nerves with this last comment. That tells me he wont even try to move up this draft without low balling people and using his advanced stats to make every move this offseason once again. Moneyball. If course he does not have success with it this year? Well I have joined the rank and file growing on the radio stations and the Houston Chronicle to remove Morey as GM before we stay this way for too many more years.
I agree what Morey said. I dont think Rockets intended to tank this season. We were just close to 8th spot. If tanking, we would have finished the season way bottom in the standing. We are still average team so we are not tanking, but still in rebuilding mode.
Every guy on this team is his guy. If the team is underperforming or morey can't get more of his guys, he needs to go and maybe rossas/mchale can get the kind of players who can make this team relevant again. As I've said before, just because you trade older players doesn't mean your tanking. I mentioned this also, denver did just that.
So it better work this year. I know peoples voices van have an effect on things. With another empty stadium next year? It wont take much to get Morey replaced after his thrid coach if he does not make the playoffs or get his Superstar via draft or trade. I dont care what his direction is anymore. Morey does not control the majority of fans money and voices if it doesnt work out for the 4th year in a row. Call it moneyball and slap his seal of approval on it if he gets something done. It better not be the same thing again.
I think Morey is feeling the pressure and is now in "Keep my job" mode. My biggest beef with him is his hand picking Kevin McHale....that may be his end of days move. DD
every one wants to sugar coat the term "tanking" calling it rebuilding mode or whatever else the new term is ...but no one really knows...
He's had one year out from yao's contract. And the blockbuster trade he put together last summer was squashed by the league. Patience, grasshopper... We've half the board pining for 5+ years of cellar dwelling, and the other half calling for his head already. (sometimes both calls by the same guys).
