The photo of the back of Zimmerman's head while compelling doesn't change anything for me. The initial police report said he was bleeding from the back of the head so a photo of it isn't surprising. Regarding the extent of the damage not much can be told from that new photo. Also as noted earlier in the police station 45 minutes later he doesn't appear to be bleeding nor are the wounds bandaged so I have doubts whether those were essentially life threatening injuries. I still have a hard time seeing this case as being murder 2 but nothing I have seen so far rules out manslaughter.
Isn't the real issue whether or not GZ reasonably felt that the next crashing of his skull upon the ground would be the disabling one? Who's going to wait patiently and find out with a strapping young man on top of you?
http://http://news.yahoo.com/report-zimmerman-told-cops-trayvon-last-words-okay-202404079.html;_ylt=AiAGWIa9gEN_sSQWDxE9PcumWot4;_ylu=X3oDMTRvYmQwdWUyBGNjb2RlA2dtcHRvcDEwMDBwb29sd2lraXVwcmVzdARtaXQDTmV3cyBmb3IgeW91BHBrZwMxMTk1ZTgwZC0zNWEwLTNlZGMtOThjMy1mMjMzYTBjMmQ0YTgEcG9zAzkEc2VjA25ld3NfZm9yX3lvdQR2ZXIDOWJhZDhmMjAtOGE1ZC0xMWUxLWJiM2ItN2MxM2YwZTQ5NDEy;_ylg=X3oDMTNoamdrbW1xBGludGwDdXMEbGFuZwNlbi11cwRwc3RhaWQDYWQzNTk1YmUtMTc4Ni0zNTViLTgwZjktODU4YmQ1YTVhM2QxBHBzdGNhdANwb2xpdGljc3xkZXN0aW5hdGlvbjIwMTIEcHQDc3RvcnlwYWdlBHRlc3QD;_ylv=3 Trayvon Martin’s last words were, “Okay, you got it,” a law enforcement source told The Daily Beast. The report offers fresh details about Zimmerman’s Feb. 26 shooting of Martin. The law enforcement source, an unnamed official who knows — and believes — Zimmerman’s account, said that he told three separate agencies the story of how Martin was killed. Zimmerman, the source claimed, told police that he was confronted by Martin after following the 17-year-old and losing sight of him. Martin punched Zimmerman, knocking him down. “Zimmerman told police that when he was on the ground, Martin straddled him, striking him, and then tried to smother him,” wrote Beast reporter Aram Roston. That was when Zimmerman said he shouted for help, explained the source. Some of Martin’s advocates have insisted it was actually the teenager who was heard shouting on a 911 call made from within earshot of the scene. Zimmerman claimed that it wasn’t until Martin noticed the 9mm pistol holstered to Zimmerman’s waste that the older man grabbed it and shot Martin. “Okay, you got it,” Martin reportedly said twice before falling back. At this point, the source explained, Zimmerman “lunged to get on top of” Martin, not realizing the severity of the 17-year-old’s injury. Police arrived shortly after, cuffed Zimmerman, and took the gun. That night, the Beast reported, Zimmerman underwent three police interviews, including one walk-through of the scene, complete with Zimmerman lying on his back and shouting for help. “Afterward, three detectives grilled Zimmerman at police headquarters in their most thorough and hostile questioning, according to the source,” wrote Roston. “They told Zimmerman they didn’t believe him, the source said, and tried to poke holes in his story.” It’s unclear at this point if they did.
I think the real issue is whether or not he is telling the truth and if there is enough evidence to prove it one way or the other. The girlfriend on the phone is a conflicting story that makes it appear that GZ confronted Martin and not the "sucker punch" story that GZ has stated.
LoL "strapping young man". We need to find first who started the fight, and if there was any reason for Zimmerman to think his life was in danger.
Once again wait for more evidence, it is looking more and more as if the evidence is going to corroborate his claim
The key here is "reasonable" and that doesn't just mean what the person at the time felt. To me the key piece of evidence is the positions of Martin's body to Zimmerman's in the immediate aftermath. According to witnesses and the police report Zimmerman is seen on top of Martin right after the fatal shot. That would indicate that Martin actually isn't position to bash Zimmerman's head into the ground since it is impossible to do so without being on top of the other person. If Zimmerman is standing above Martin almost right after the shooting means that Martin not in position to pound Zimmerman's head into the ground and wasn't a reasonable threat at that very moment. As I have said earlier I am willing to believe Zimmerman feared for his life but the evidence doesn't show that he actually was. My own view is that Martin had backed off of Zimmerman probably because he saw Zimmerman draw the gun. Zimmerman likely fired out of shock which would mean manslaughter. The jury will have to decide it.
The key piece of evidence that would corroborate Zimmerman's claim is how much of Martin's blood is on him. If Zimmerman shot Martin while Martin was bashing his head in there should be a lot of Martin's blood on him. That has never been mentioned in any reports or witness statements.
You forget giddy has already in his mind dismissed the evidence that doesn't backed Zimmerman's claim, and while what you say makes sense to people, it won't to those that have already decided to eliminate some of the evidence.
So...while he was having his head bashed in with Martin on top of him, he reached for his holster, released the gun, disengaged the safety, then aimed and shot? Doubtful. The more I think about it, the more I agree with Murder 2 (which doesn't need intention). The new pic supports the fight, and possibly the self defense angle, but I don't think they necessarily lessen murder2 to manslaughter.
Shhhhhhhhh, giddy is completely neutral in this discussion...it just so happens he only supports one side of the argument...neutrally.
I agree that Martin was taller, probably had reach, and probably in a little better condition. That doesn't prove anything.
I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that we probably aren't going to get much more information about the incident.
I'm doing no more than those who keep promoting "evidence" that backs the Martin story who is totally circumstantially made with phone records and after-the-fact witnesses. Is not being convinced the same as dismissing?
In your case. It's made of at the time witnesses, phone records, physical evidence etc. Just look at the evidence rocketsjudoka mentioned, and the evidence I've mentioned as well.
