It's so odd the different perspectives that people can have. I thought MadMax's post was one of the most reaffirming Christian posts I've seen in a long time.
I appreciate your concern. I'm not going through a crisis of faith at all. Jesus freed me from religion..from judgment..from condemnation. My faith is in Him...not in doctrine. I'm not unsettled at all about what I believe about Him....I'm entirely ambivalent about what I'm talking about when I talk about Church doctrine. I didn't go to a mosque specifically to pray...I went with a pastor nearly 10 year ago or so now to meet with the leader of their mosque because my pastor at the time was doing a sermon series on other faith traditions and where they have meeting points and differences with the Christian faith. We both participated in Friday prayers...the prayers were in Arabic and completely meaningless to me, so i used the time to say my own prayers, bowed to God. I found the people around me to be extremely friendly and warm...I didn't bother telling them I took the time to talk to Jesus. We also visited a Buddhist temple where I spent about 3 hours talking to a monk who was initially convinced I was only there to beat him over the head with the Bible...after he realized I wasn't there to do that, we had an amazing conversation. I disagree entirely with the notion that the doctrines of the Church I was talking about specifically which have divided the Church for 2000 years into different denominations are well settled or are clear in the Bible. I can make compelling arguments on both sides of every issue from God's sovereignty vs. free will to infant/adult baptism. I used to care about that stuff...I don't anymore...not even a little bit. I'm most concerned with making sure my concerns match those of what I understand God's to be from the example of Christ. And when I see that exhibited in other human beings...no matter what they call themselves (Muslim, Hindu, Christian, atheist, agnostic) I credit it, personally, to God. Because if He is who I think He is, He's not really concerned with labels like "unclean" or "Samaritan"....which brings me back to the whole original thought behind this thread. Again, I appreciate your concern...but I still believe in the God I understand through the lens of Jesus. Now I do have a crisis of faith...but that's about the Houston Rockets.
Nope. I forgot that according to the Book of Mormon Jesus appeared in America. Although for anyone who read it does it Jesus talk about "The United States of America"?
CHRISTIAN FIGHT! Solid, at the risk of injecting myself into a dispute that I have no part of, I am not sure what is so bad about MadMax attending prayers at a mosque. Several Christian leaders have prayed at Mosque including the Pope and I don't think anyone would question his faith. That is a crisis of faith that unfortunately we all share.
hes not the same kind of believer as santorum is... thats for sure. the fact that obama came to his christian beliefs as an adult tells me he wasn't brainwashed with silly christian dogma. as described in his book, the audacity of hope, Obama writes: "I'm a Christian by choice. My family didn't—frankly, they weren't folks who went to church every week. And my mother was one of the most spiritual people I knew, but she didn't raise me in the church. So I came to my Christian faith later in life, and it was because the precepts of Jesus Christ spoke to me in terms of the kind of life that I would want to lead—being my brothers' and sisters' keeper, treating others as they would treat me." that may be 'christian', but it isn't the bible thumping christianity that permeates most of America.
I wouldn't say that it permeates most of America. I'd say the ones who are the loudest and most brash with their belief. But there is a difference.
It permeates with the bottom rung of people situated on society's intellectual ladder. Also, thanks to social media idiotic cutesy analogies combining religion and popular culture is spread more easily than ever before. However, as long as this country sticks to its secularist policies then I don't give a damn what the loud and uneducated say or do. (No offense to those that don't practice religion like dogmatic barbarians. I have respect for those that keep their beliefs to themselves and don't try to impose their will onto others.)
In all due respect, if you believe that orthodox Christians are at the bottom of the intellectual ladder, then you need to better familiarize yourself with the history of Christianity. Some of the greatest minds of history were Christians and the same is true today. I grew up in a church made up largely of internationally known scientists including the physicist whose picture was in Time magazine examining the moon rocks. Don't buy the media stereotypes, they are purposeful distortions.
Perhaps you are confusing dogma with doctrine. I don't want to hang up on semantics, but doctrine simply means teaching. If you believe in Christ, surely you believe in His teaching. I know you do (I think). Jesus never condemned religion, he condemned "false" religion. I know it is "in style" to claim Christianity is not a religion but a relationship, and while that is partially true, Christianity is a religion. It certainly meets all the requirements of the definition. I believe it is the one true religion. If God is not into religion He sure wasted a lot of time setting up the detailed specifics of worship, especially in the O.T., but in the New as well. The Epistles are all letters to the churches. Anyway, surely we agree on the essentials. I do believe in "truth," and the greatest truth of all is that Christ died for the sins of the whole world, He took our place, took our judgment and offers everyone absolute forgiveness, and unconditional love. And that is a teaching (doctrine) on which I stand.
Fundamentalist Christians. Those that are against civil rights for homosexuals and strictly against abortion are usually the ones at the bottom of the ladder. I'm not talking about the average Christian, I'm talking about the "fervent" ones. No doubt however, I widely blame organized religion for stunting human and scientific progress. It might be a big generalization but it still irks me that stem cell research hasn't been able to get going because of the religious community.
All I care about is he is a true believer in the constitution, if people have to be placated by him worshiping some spaghetti monster diety, then a mans gotta do what a mans gotta do. DD
"True believer" of the constitution is subjective. There are those that believe that the constitution can be interpreted pretty loosely. Then there is the conservative right that believes in strict interpretation.
This is where I camp out on religion...and yeah, Jesus freed you from all the OT laws. You're free to eat shrimp, and you don't have to stone your child in the front yard if he smarts back to you. :grin: James 1:27 Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world. Anyway...not interested in a holy war where I selectively pull scripture to argue...James 1 just resonates with me a ton. It is, as you say, that it seems we're primarily discussing semantics, anyway.
secretly, it's encouraged. you learn that on the 4th meeting right after the Trial of Snakes and right before the Scavenger Hunt.
