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NBA.com's Player v. Player Stats: Lowry and Dragic

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by Carl Herrera, Apr 12, 2012.

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  1. Carl Herrera

    Carl Herrera Member

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    NBA.com has some neat features they call "Advanced Stats," one of them is "Player v. Player Stats" that allow you to pick two players either from the same team or from different teams and see how each of them performs with or without the other on the court at the same time.

    There has been quite a bit of recent discussion regarding whether Lowry and Dragic can play well with each other. Morey claimed both on radio this moring and in an earlier tweet that they do. McHale also said the Lowry+Dragic lineup have done well. Some here have been skeptical. So, I decided to use the Player v. Player stats on Dragic and Lowry.


    Here's the data (click on the link and then click on the 2011-2012 season, they only played 38 minutes together last year):

    http://www.nba.com/advancedstats/pl...ran-Dragic|200768,201609;year=201112;season=r


    Note that all of the numbers, including the +/-, are calculated per 36 minutes rather than per 100 possessions. Given that the Rockets average 68.625 possession per 36 minutes, a rough way to translate between per 36 minutes and per 100 possession is to multiply the per 36 numbers by 100/68.625=1.457.

    In any case, the numbers so far show that Rockets have played better with both Dragic and Lowry on the court together than with only one of each of them on the court. Or, as Morey recently tweeted "Kyle+Goran=2 gr8 tastes that taste gr8 together."


    The Dragic-only lineups have been a +1.7 per 36 minutes in 1182 minutes. The Lowry-only lineups have been a +2.2 per 36 minutes in 1120 minutes. The Dragic+Lowry together lineusp have been a +2.9 per 36 minutes in 288 minutes.



    For those of us who are visually oriented, see the graph below that illustrates the above info:

    [​IMG]



    One thing to note that Dragic's individual shooting stats during the 288 "together" minutes is lower than his stats during his "alone" minutes. However, remember many of his "alone" minutes were racked up while starting for the injured Lowry, during which stretch his shooting caught fire and most of his "together" minutes came before that stretch. It would be interesting to continue watching how the "post-emergence" Dragic plays with Lowry.
     
    #1 Carl Herrera, Apr 12, 2012
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  2. flamingdts

    flamingdts Member

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    They certainly look a lot more effective together on the court.

    Also, from what I noticed, so far whenever Lowry is on the court he is always guarding the bigger player, even though Dragic is the taller player.

    Against Portland he guarded Crawford (although he has done that before the injury if I remember), against the Jazz he was on Hayward.

    By the way great picture, that was funny.
     
    #2 flamingdts, Apr 12, 2012
  3. DaDakota

    DaDakota Balance wins
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    I wish they would have seperate the minutes out to Dragic as a starter vs Lowry as a starter for a more apples to apples comparison.

    DD
     
    #3 DaDakota, Apr 12, 2012
  4. WinkFan

    WinkFan Member

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    Lowry has only played 61 minutes total since he came back, so the sample with Dragic starting is pretty small, maybe 30 minutes.
     
    #4 WinkFan, Apr 12, 2012
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  5. SamFisher

    SamFisher Member

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    You sank his battleship. But don't think he won't steam it out of port again someday soon.
     
    #5 SamFisher, Apr 12, 2012
  6. DaDakota

    DaDakota Balance wins
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    Not what I meant, I would like to know how they each did when they were the starters etc....ie the main guy with the ball.

    DD
     
    #6 DaDakota, Apr 12, 2012
  7. meh

    meh Member

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    I don't know the answer to the question of whether or not they can play together. But I don't think stats here matter. When Dragic and Lowry are starter and backup, McHale can dictate the rotation so that they play together against favorable matchups. But this changes when you're forced to use them together, say having both start. Then you can run into matchup issues and be forced to play Lee.

    In essence, if one of them is willing to be the backup, then I can see this work quite well. The backup can come in as the spark off the bench and cause issues for the other team. But I'm not sure either player will take the backup role at this point.
     
    #7 meh, Apr 12, 2012
  8. durvasa

    durvasa Member

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    Lowry was +2.5 per 48 minutes as a starter (1347 minutes)

    Dragic is +7.1 per 48 minutes as a starter (739 minutes)
     
    #8 durvasa, Apr 12, 2012
  9. meh

    meh Member

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    Unfortunately, all this shows is that Dragic >>> Boykins/Flynn. And possibly that Dragic the starter > Dragic the backup.
     
    #9 meh, Apr 12, 2012
  10. Deckard

    Deckard Blade Runner
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    I'm still delving deeply into your graph, CH. It's amazing! :-D-
     
    #10 Deckard, Apr 12, 2012
  11. Carl Herrera

    Carl Herrera Member

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    Thanks.

    I worked hard to create that perfect mixture of informative, tasty and vaguely racist.
     
    #11 Carl Herrera, Apr 12, 2012
  12. durvasa

    durvasa Member

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    Boykins/Flynn aren't related to it. Perhaps you're mistaking +/- for On/Off Net +/-.
     
    #12 durvasa, Apr 12, 2012
  13. CertifiedTroll

    CertifiedTroll Member

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    I feel the ice cream tid-bit is a racial slur.. I'm calling you out!
     
    #13 CertifiedTroll, Apr 12, 2012
  14. Deckard

    Deckard Blade Runner
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    I think you soft-served a perfect mixture!
     
    #14 Deckard, Apr 12, 2012
  15. Carl Herrera

    Carl Herrera Member

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    No more so than nicknames like "Chocolate Thunder," "Vanilla Gorilla" or "White Chocolate.".
     
    #15 Carl Herrera, Apr 12, 2012
  16. Carl Herrera

    Carl Herrera Member

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    To be fair, starter Dragic has likely had a better group with him than starter Lowry had on average. Camby was added at the deadline, whereas starter Lowry had to spend some minutes early in the season with an ineffective Hill at C. Lee as starter has also been more consistent than Martin.
     
    #16 Carl Herrera, Apr 12, 2012
  17. BigM

    BigM Member

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    Awesome job on the graph!
     
    #17 BigM, Apr 12, 2012
  18. Shroopy2

    Shroopy2 Member

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    We're all "down with the swirl"

    :)
     
    #18 Shroopy2, Apr 12, 2012
  19. jordnnnn

    jordnnnn Member

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    Good work. All I could think of when I saw that picture was this...

    "...the black and white cookie. I love the black and white. Two races of flavor living side by side in harmony. It's a wonderful thing, isn't it?"

    [​IMG]
     
    #19 jordnnnn, Apr 12, 2012
  20. Billionzz

    Billionzz Member

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    I like the fact that Lowry and Dragic point guard play is completely different from each other, I think this really makes a difference.
     
    #20 Billionzz, Apr 13, 2012
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