Trayvon Martin

NEW BLACK PANTHERS STAFFER. STOPPED READING. Do you understand that .0000001% of African-Americans identify with the New Black Panthers? Do you want me to start throwing random quotes in this thread from stormfront? What is your point in posting that? Is that supposed to be representative of how all blacks feel?

You're out of touch with reality gwayneco. These last couple of pages have really elucidated exactly why you've so vehemently supported George Zimmerman. Needing more facts had nothing to do with it. You've decried this investigation at every opportunity. Every modicum of evidence which shined a negative light on George Zimmerman's actions that night has been completely discounted by you - regardless of the source. Instead you've chosen to believe and regurgitate the chain of events according to Zimmerman repeatedly, perhaps hoping that if you perpetuated it enough - it would be perceived as fact.

You appealed to the system initially. Now that the system has levied some charges don't cry about it.

Somehow tie Barack Obama with the New Black Panthers, mission accomplished. You have officially gone full r****d.

 

We technically don't know everything that the special prosecutor knows.

 

And it would take one seriously stupid one to pursue a murder 2 charge that he doesn't think is a slam dunk. These guys put their careers on the line when they bring charges. Losing this case would make him the laughing stock of the legal system.

 

I am curious for all of you who are arguing that Zimmerman cannot get a fair trial because of the all the publicity. Did any of you think that Casey Anthony, Scott Petersen and OJ Simpson couldn't get a fair trial because of the vast amount of pre-trial publicity?

 

The media didn't complete distort the facts to make it seem like a racially motivated crime.

 

The jury will likely have the ability to find guilty of manslaughter even if found not guilty of murder 2. I don't think they could find him guilty of m2 if he was charged with manslaughter.

 

You do know you can find non racist people to put on a jury right?

 

Do you not trust our trial-by-jury system?

 

The problem with that though is that where the fatal encounter occurred though isn't near the street but behind the houses in a walkway. It doesn't seem logical that Zimmerman would walk all the way behind a couple of houses just to get a building number.

There are a couple of issues here. You are correct that it isn't illegal for him to get out of the car or that he is armed but there is a question of judgement. The fact that he considered Martin to be a suspicious person and possibly a threat shows that rather than avoid that threat he chose to escalate the situation by deciding to pursue that threat even when told not to.

Regarding that Martin was smashing his head in and Zimmerman shot him in the struggle to me this is the most questionable part of his story. Zimmerman does have injuries on the back of his head so it is likely that Martin may have smashed his head but if Zimmerman had shot Martin while he was doing so then first off Martin's body would most likely be on top of Zimmerman since Martin has to be on top of Zimmerman to bash his head in. Second to bash Zimmerman's head in, or try to reach for Zimmerman's gun, Martin has to be very close to Zimmerman and Zimmerman's clothes should have blood splatter from Martin getting shot. Witnesses report in the immediate aftermath of the shooting that Zimmerman is standing over Martin and in the video at the police station no blood is seen on Zimmerman's clothes.

And are you considering the facts the other way? You seem determined to argue Zimmerman's innocence and blame the media and racial tensions that just considering the facts as known.

Speaking for myself I have tried to leave race out of my analysis of the situation and I am even willing to believe that Zimmerman was in fear for his life. The problem with that is his personal opinion has to be weighed overall with reasonable person standard. Everyone who claims self-defense will always say they were afraid for their life but as even FL case law shows that doesn't always prevent a conviction.

As I've said before looking over all of the evidence Zimmerman's story doesn't add up and I think manslaughter is the most likely situation.

In some cases you are escalating a situation by assisting police because since you are not a recognized authority figure who ever you are trying to apprehend / follow / subdue / etc. probably won't react to you the same way they will to a police officer. Also from working on emergency situations there is the problem of the eager civilian whose lack of training gets in the way of an official response.

 

You must not have remembered the OJ case. If you do then you will recall there was a lot of media distortion, mistatements of facts including the infamous Time cover where they distorted Simpson's picture and even a fake report by one of Howard Stern's crew that was initially reported as true.

 

How can you tell who walked up to whom by listening on a cellphone? That's what I'm asking.

That was the "late" witness right? The initial witness saw it the other way around didn't he?

The degree of injury is convincing of nothing because Zimmerman acted to stop the attack. If you look at the video, the most noteworthy thing to me is that the officer looks at the back of Zimmerman's head when he exits the car as if to see if it is bleeding again. I can't imagine any other reason that he would be examining Zimmerman's head.

I don't know what happened. I, like you, have an opinion. Up until the actions of the Special Prosecutor, my opinion lined up with the authorities and yours lined up with the protesters based on Trayvon's race and age which in the heat of the confrontation are not a factor.

 

To claim that Angela Corey, the special prosecutor is somehow ignoring the evidence and instead pursuing the case for political reasons is silly.

The easiest way to do that would have been to use the grand jury. She puts the case before the grand jury... If they say send it to trial, then she can say the evidence was there, and there and I just had to do it. The political forces supporting Zimmerman are appeased.

Then if the grand jury said don't go to trial, she could say, we tried but there just wasn't enough evidence.

Either way it would like she did what was expected, but would have no responsibility in the outcome and could spin it whichever way would be best.

Instead she's taking responsibility, feels the evidence is strong enough for a Murder 2 trial, and didn't need a grand jury. It's gutsy and not the politically expedient thing to do.

 

How do you know the number wasn't on the back? Or he didn't see it on the front? I have driven through apartment complexes and condos that I literally had to walk around the entire building like 2 times to find the sign that is usually too high, too dark, and too out of place. That is certainly a possibility.

He found him suspicious. There had been 8 recent robberies committed by a similar suspect, described as a young black male. Zimmerman sees young black male he doesn't recognize walking with a hoodie on, slowly in the rain, creeping close to apartments. Suspicious, no? So, as a neighborhood watchman, he felt obligated to pursue the suspicious character while he contacted police, as there had been numerous crimes committed in the recent timeframe. He wasn't a vigilante going to take this guy out on his own. He wanted to ensure the police found and spoke to this guy. Was it the right thing to do? It wasn't necessarily the WRONG thing to do.

While you are correct in asserting that none of this would have happened if he would have stayed in his car, you can say the same thing about Martin, none of this would have happened if he would have taken an umbrella, not crept so close to the apartments, or if it wasn't raining. If either of them left 5 min earlier/later this likely wouldn't have happened. Why is it so hard to believe that this was an accident? We have established that Zimmerman is likely not racially motivated, he had no reason to kill the kid unless he feared for his safety.

When you are being attacked, you don't think about the scenario that led up to the attack. You think about preserving your life. Zimmerman wasn't like ah I can't fight this guy, I pursued HIM, now he has the right to harm me. Zimmerman claims he was simply following the dispatcher's instructions while keeping a watchful eye on the suspect. NOTHING illegal about that.

So many of you keep saying he pursued Martin when told not to. Where has this been confirmed? The recording doesn't verify that. The witnesses don't verify that. The GF can only verify that Martin saw Zimmerman watching him and that she told him to run.

As for the claim that Martin bashed his head in...You are right there will be evidence to refute or confirm that claim. However, that evidence has not been released. We don't know if Zimmerman was initially wearing a jacket, or if maybe Zimmerman and Martin were rolling around and then the gun went off.

All of this can easily be verified, I would think, by forensics. We have yet to see that report, so I don't think anyone should be assuming anything. The only thing I am assuming is that he could be innocent and that he could be guilty. However, he doesn't need to prove he is innocent. The state needs to prove he is guilty.

And if everything went how you think it went, the evidence will likely support that conclusion and he will be convicted.

 

I think It is required that all homes have a clearly visable home address from the street. How are paramedics or Firemen supposed to find it in case of an emergency? I know the Fire Marshall requires it for all businesses

 

You're right. However, just because they skip the GJ and go straight to trial, doesn't mean they have evidence strong enough to convict them.

Also she could very well be taking this straight to trial to appease the public outcry. Perhaps not though. Not out of the realm of possibilities.
However, she would be putting herself at extreme risk if she fails to convict.

 

Come on dude, have you been to an apartment complex before? Hell even businesses. They may be required to have it visible, but I guarantee you that a lot of places don't. I can't tell you how many times I have gotten annoyed trying to find places that don't put their addresses anywhere convenient.

 

Right, that doesn't matter. It would show that Martin didn't ambush Zimmerman from behind

[/quote] One initial witness saw things differently, which is what I've said all along. It's not possible to say with certainty what happened, or even likely. I haven't said that Zimmerman attacked Martin, or that most likely was Zimmerman approaching Martin. I've merely presented evidence contrary to your claims and states that Martin attacked Zimmerman as fact or the most likely scenario.

First of all it's possible to act to stop further injury without pulling out a gun and killing an unarmed teen. The cops could have checked the head to make sure that a cuffed Zimmerman hadn't banged his head into the car. The lack of injuries show that there weren't life threatening injuries, and it helps bolster the statements of the witness who said that Zimmerman wasn't seriously hurt during the fight. The same one that said Zimmerman was on top of Martin.

The video also shows no bandages, bandaids, packing of the nose, or police using latex gloves which they do when suspects are bleeding, etc. There is a lot to glean from the video.

Who the hell are you to say that protestors only formed their opinion based on race? I've said in this thread that race was a distractor from the facts. The protestors could have based their protests based on the evidence.

I haven't made up my mind what happened. I'd like to get to the bottom of it. My opinion didn't line up with protestors, because outside of believing that it should go trial, I don't have an opinion about Zimmerman's guilt or innocence.

I want a chance to see the evidence vetted, questioned, and put before the court before I form my opinion. I did have an opinion that there was enough evidence to arrest the killer of an unarmed teen.

Some authorities didn't believe Zimmerman's story of self defense and wanted to arrest him. One prosecutor over ruled that.

 

Sounds like your store was in a crappy neighborhood.

If I used my personal experiences to completely define a race or culture, I would say Indian people smell like they rarely shower and smell like a spice warehouse even when they do. It could just be that I had a few classes with a couple of smelly Indian dudes in college, but I think it's enough evidence to make it a factual statement. Someday, I hope Indian people will join the rest of us in showering regularly and using deodorant.

My experience working in bookstores was that Indian people always complain about prices and want to haggle. They tried to use multiple coupons when the fine print said one per customer. They also would return study guide books after clearly using them to prepare for a test.

That's just my experience though, and I think it's enough to define a billion people. It couldn't possibly be that bad experiences are inherently more memorable than good ones because the good ones are normal and mundane and don't leave lasting impressions.