1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

How did the Roman Empire fall?

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by SuperBeeKay, Apr 11, 2012.

  1. SuperBeeKay

    SuperBeeKay Member

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2008
    Messages:
    6,185
    Likes Received:
    258
    It is said that several factors, one of the major being excessive military spending led to the fall of the great Roman Empire. History tends to repeat itself...

    [​IMG]
     
  2. Kojirou

    Kojirou Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2009
    Messages:
    6,180
    Likes Received:
    281
    First off, the whole concept of Rome "falling" is a rather primitive variation of history. What really happened was a gradual process of decentralization, where power slowly evaporated from the center in Rome to various Germanic chieftains whom attempted to continue the imperial legacy - hence why virtually every Middle Age king such as Charlemagne claimed to be their heirs.

    The centralized Roman power structure had major inherent weaknesses which were made far worse when 1. the Empire was actually formed and 2. they stopped conquering. The biggest, quite simply, is that the Emperors lost legitimacy, which is something any state must have if they are going to persuade people to concede their power to a faraway city. The early Emperors derived their legitimacy from Caesar's legacy, but that collapsed on Caligula's death. At that point, it became the equivalent to a military dictatorship than a monarchy, and thus was inevitably doomed by the fact that sooner or later, an idiot or a weak ruler would get in power, which is what occurred with Aurelius's death. A weak ruler with weak legitimacy inevitably invites civil war as high nobleman or the peasantry no longer wish to concede power, which is a huge danger to an empire this large. And that's pretty much what happened. The Empire got torn apart by civil war. There's a lot of other problems the Empire had that people don't get, especially economically, but I've never seen a credible academic source that actually stated that excessive military spending was a major factor in Roman decline.
     
    2 people like this.
  3. KingCheetah

    KingCheetah Atomic Playboy
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2002
    Messages:
    59,079
    Likes Received:
    52,748
    Read Rome sweet Rome for answers.
     
  4. gwayneco

    gwayneco Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2000
    Messages:
    3,459
    Likes Received:
    36
    Barack Obama said it was 8 years of George W. Bush.
     
  5. Classic

    Classic Member

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2007
    Messages:
    6,101
    Likes Received:
    608

    Put a democrat in the white house and all a sudden people shrug off the elephant in the room. Reroute 10% of that and you don't have near the domestic hardships we do.

    Mr. Pres says:
    "Quit whinning, quit grumbling, quit complainin..." Yeah peps, just suck it up while we continue to fund the war machine but not help the annoying grumblers.
     
  6. Dairy Ashford

    Dairy Ashford Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2002
    Messages:
    14,585
    Likes Received:
    1,888
    Excessive compared to what, exactly? Wasn't war one of the few ways you made money back then? Didn't some of these fools just tag along? Pre-combustion based weaponry and transport, couldn't you just bring most of that **** from the farm with you?
     
  7. rhadamanthus

    rhadamanthus Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2002
    Messages:
    14,304
    Likes Received:
    596
    Gibbon provided many plausible factors.

    But it's a ****tacularly huge book. I'd recap for you - but it would take about 130 pages.
     
  8. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2007
    Messages:
    58,167
    Likes Received:
    48,334
    I am for cutting defense spending but this is a fairly weak argument to use the fall of Rome as a reason for cutting defense spending. If we consider the fall of Rome as when the Visigoths sacked it then it would make more sense to say they weren't spending enough on defense.
     
  9. Cohete Rojo

    Cohete Rojo Member

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2009
    Messages:
    10,344
    Likes Received:
    1,203
    Lead poising, which lead to mental defects amongst the Roman aristocrats. I wonder what the US's lead poisoning will be.

    http://penelope.uchicago.edu/~grout/encyclopaedia_romana/wine/leadpoisoning.html

     
  10. SuperBeeKay

    SuperBeeKay Member

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2008
    Messages:
    6,185
    Likes Received:
    258
  11. weslinder

    weslinder Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2006
    Messages:
    12,983
    Likes Received:
    291
    Rome fell and feudalism started because Nero debased the currency.
     
  12. bmb4516

    bmb4516 Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2006
    Messages:
    303
    Likes Received:
    28
    Your graph is pretty. Too bad it only shows 1/3 of actual government spending.
     
  13. Kyrodis

    Kyrodis Member

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2002
    Messages:
    1,336
    Likes Received:
    22
    Seriously...that's a vastly misleading graph. I'm not saying that defense spending shouldn't be cut to some degree, but it only accounts for 19% of the total federal budget. Those "durn socialist" programs (Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid) are what cost the most year after year.

    [​IMG]
     
  14. B-Bob

    B-Bob "94-year-old self-described dreamer"
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2002
    Messages:
    35,985
    Likes Received:
    36,840
    For real though, friend: Nero was a half black emperor. Look it up -- all true.
     
  15. Kojirou

    Kojirou Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2009
    Messages:
    6,180
    Likes Received:
    281
    ..............You DO realize that there was about 350 years between the end of Nero's reign and the complete end of the centralized Roman apparatus?
     
  16. Blake

    Blake Member

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2003
    Messages:
    9,970
    Likes Received:
    3,005
    Key word "discretionary"

    misleading graph
     
  17. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2007
    Messages:
    58,167
    Likes Received:
    48,334
    And I know for a fact HE WASN'T CHRISTIAN!
     
  18. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2007
    Messages:
    58,167
    Likes Received:
    48,334
    My sarcasm meter doesn't always work but I think he was joking.
     
  19. weslinder

    weslinder Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2006
    Messages:
    12,983
    Likes Received:
    291
    Not completely. The debasement of the currency led to the loss of confidence in the currency, dispersion of the people from urban centers to more rural areas, and movement back to an agrarian economy. That being said, it was a long process, and Nero was just the first to debase the currency.

    To be fair, I think the Roman Empire was always in decline. Roman society reached its peak as a Republic.
     
  20. KingCheetah

    KingCheetah Atomic Playboy
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2002
    Messages:
    59,079
    Likes Received:
    52,748

Share This Page

  • About ClutchFans

    Since 1996, ClutchFans has been loud and proud covering the Houston Rockets, helping set an industry standard for team fan sites. The forums have been a home for Houston sports fans as well as basketball fanatics around the globe.

  • Support ClutchFans!

    If you find that ClutchFans is a valuable resource for you, please consider becoming a Supporting Member. Supporting Members can upload photos and attachments directly to their posts, customize their user title and more. Gold Supporters see zero ads!


    Upgrade Now