No on both points, but I guess I should just be happy you didn't go ballistic and cuss me out. Until now this thread has gone largely on topic. If you find your questions interesting and in need of further discussions I will promise to not address them in a new thread, this one deals with peoples opinions of Obama's actual beliefs. (which you have ignored to answer)
Hi Batman. I share a lot of your head-shaking at the Obama dialogue in our country, but I think you may exag a tad, in terms of US political history (a subject about which I am NO expert, for sure.) Kennedy's religion was pretty important, and I'm pretty sure the press asked his opponents along the way (especially when he ran for pres.) what they thought about his statements regarding Catholicism and whether or not he would answer to the Pope. That's just a fairly modern example. Politics have never been that pretty or high-minded, from everything I've ever read about US political history.
Not only that he ignored MadMax saying one can find morals without religion but skipped calling him an atheist. The unfortunate part is Batman is one of the Obama supporters I would like to hear from on the OP. How does he wrap his head around the fact Obama is a proclaimed Christian and if it is not a negative, is that at all because of the reasons I listed.
Nobody asked Kennedy if he was lying when he said he was Catholic. And nobody asked him if he was lying when he said he believed in God. This is the question CaseyH is asking in this thread: Is Obama a liar? Let us question his faith, he poses. Who believes Obama when he tells us of his religious beliefs. If this is not unprecedented in American politics you're gonna have to go way, way back to find a like example. Casey's thread wasn't 'hey, let's talk about Obama's relationship with religion or God.' It was 'hey Obama says he believes in God, is he lying?' If that's not brand new I will eat my hat.
This has happened all throughout our history. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bruce-feiler/obama-a-muslim-lincoln-a-_b_688527.html *Edit: The Federalists accused Jefferson of being a Satanist. That's worse than anything Obama has faced.
You've heard from me. When people tell me they believe in God I don't publicly or in secret wonder if they are lying. When people ask if our president is lying about something as personal as his faith, I think those people are dicks. You've heard from me.
My apologies to the OP. Your article clearly demonstrates that there have always been people willing to question political opponents (we all know Casey's GOP, right?) as to whether they are lying about so personal a thing as religion. How sad and bad.
How did you feel about Bush praying on hard decisions, and how did you feel about people making fun of or criticizing him for talking to God? Were you neutral, did you laugh but disagree with the idea of discussing religion, did you join in...? I voted against Bush twice but I guess you can call me GOP if you want, much better than other things you have called me.
Very true...........although the tone of the thread has been pretty tame so far with good discussion.
It's funny that your article referenced Lincoln, wes. The article poses that people were concerned about his faith but not about his renowned experience with mental illness, which had been plastered across the headlines of his daily paper decades before he ran for president. He was openly suicidal at times in his life and was without a doubt a 'melancholic' -- the catchall term of the day for all disorders of mood. Can you imagine electing a person we actually knew had been emotionally unstable today? I think we'd sooner elect a transsexual or even (gasp) an atheist than someone with a mood disorder. Even though we now know that not just Lincoln but also FDR, Churchill, MLK and Gandhi suffered similarly and turned out not just to be good leaders but turned out to be our best leaders.
I thought it was like praying to the bunny on the box of Trix on matters as serious as whether or not to conduct a war. But I did not question his faith and I did not make fun of him for having faith. I don't do that. And there were many other things about which to complain when it came to GWB and all were more pressing and more serious. I did not laugh at his religion and I did not join in in criticizing him for it. This is only because I don't want to disrespect belief or believers (and that only because I truly believe ignorance is bliss and I do not wish to disabuse anyone of bliss or relief or comfort) and because I recognize that we are at a place in our history when one can only be elected by professing belief in an imaginary being.
So it sounds like you believe the premise in the OP, is that correct? edit to add: I am only talking about Obama because of the reasons in the OP, if you wanted to go line by line and based purely on behavior, there is obviously more doubt that Clinton was a "true believer". Obama is less religious than Bush, but from my memory he is more religious than Bill. I don't really care about that though. I am not trying to judge behavior in a positive or negative light, just explanations for it.
