Would Dragic be playing this well if he was extended?

Yes, you are correct, I failed to recognize that as a Euro player he had that option.

Good point.

DD

 

Can't argue with that. :grin:

 

I didn't say he screwed up. I was questioning your "the player would be pissed off" logic. I just don't see how Dragic would be pissed off if the team did not pick up the option. If anything, he should be happy being released from an undervalued contract (even before he got the chance to start).

We will never know how much Morey would have offered Dragic had he chose to become a RFA. Let's say he was offered 15M for 4 years (which is not bad for a backup), would he have taken that? If he didn't have a chance to showcase his talent as a starter, could he get the same amount in the free agent market this summer? That's something he would have to consider.

We now know in hindsight that he is worth more than that offer. The question is, without the hindsight, could Morey foresee the talent and try to lock him up? Would Dragic have enough confidence in his own worth (and the luck of having a chance to show that worth) to decline such an offer?

BTW, now that Dragic is becoming an UFA, the ball is back to Morey's hands. He now is the one who will have to consider the risks. Should he compete with the market and sign a big contract with Dragic? Is Dragic's blowing up a fluke or a real indication of his worth?

 

Because it takes away his UFA option to start somewhere else, and get the pay day. So to get it back, he signs overseas or signs a qualifying offer.

Look at it this way, Dragic has one of the largest salaries for a 2nd round pick -- most sign for minimum. Phoenix had to pay him that to get him here. We are going to have to pay Llul to get him here, too. History says Dragic won't sign contracts that equal picks sign; he likely considers himself better than whomever he is slotted with salary-wise.

If Dragic is looking to start somewhere (which seems to be the case--even before the season), Morey forcing RFA on him is taking away his option to start somewhere else -- and Lowry was the starter here. That might piss him off.

I'm not saying it for sure pisses him off, but (with the lockout and no ability for Morey to talk to him for 6mos) Dragic would be talking to other people and weighing other options, when facing a lockout.

It isn't worth the risk. We could have lost him for nearly the entire lockout season...and only got him rental for one month.

 

Have you been reading my posts?

About the loyalty issue I too agree it is overrated. But some players seem to value it more. Yao was one of those and to some degree I thought Dragic was too. And the fact he was traded by Phoenix and quickly traded by Houston certainly has awaken him to the business of the NBA. So I suspect you won't see any discounts coming our way. His words "this summer is going to be big" and "all the doors are open" indicates as much.

I also agree there is very little loyalty in this league and mostly the players know that. You are only as safe as you are valued by your team. But that sense of value sometimes for some players is returned. The opposite is also true. I think what some on this board are saying is if you excessively treat your players like assets to be traded on the open market, they will assuredly go to the highest bidder.

There is a sense that many of the players feel to much like assets on this team. Martin calling Morey out was not a single incident but rather something more than a few of the players have voiced. It's not exclusive to Morey. Kupchak got called out by Kobe but he handled it differently and talked directly to Gasol. Of course I do not know what goes on behind Morey's doors but certainly some of the players feel they are always on the block. Partly because they are but perhaps Morey could use a little charm school training.

All things being equal a history of treating players more like assets than people can come back and bite you. And a little Dale Carnegie "How to win Friends and Influence People" could go a long way for Morey. Showing a history of being a straight shooter and not a liar can't hurt. Going up to Dragic and admitting you did not realize he was the talent he is couldn't hurt. Of course find a better way to say it.

Again loyalty is a small part in the scheme of things and in the end it's more about show me the money. But all things being equal a sense of being dealt with respectfully can go a long way.

 

***UPDATE***

A source familiar with the Rockets' thinking about Goran Dragic's contract situation has informed me that, among other options, an extension WAS discussed. I'm not sure if those discussions progressed to the point where Dragic's agent was informed or if any actual negotiations took place, but they were definitely discussed internally.

Furthermore, the option of declining Dragic's team option for this season (making him a restricted free agent) was also definitely discussed and analyzed, but that the decision was finally made to pick up that option due, in part, to the following concerns:

--That he'd just take the one-year qualifying offer (for similar money to his team option amount) and then walk as an unrestricted free agent this summer;

--That he'd sign overseas to a long-term deal, which concern was exacerbated by the impending NBA lockout; and

--That having him on the qualifying offer (a one-year deal) rather than on that option year (the fourth year of a four-year deal) would make him untradable without his consent (due to the One-Year Bird rule), a concern that might have prevented the Pau Gasol trade from even getting to Stern's ridiculous veto.


As far as the extension was concerned, I was told that, prior to Samuel Dalembert becoming available--and Carl Herrara is going to love this--a "cap room" extension (similar to what Nick Collison received last year from OKC) was seriously discussed within the Rockets' front office.

For those of you unfamiliar with the concept of a "cap room" extension (which is a salary cap oddity), the premise is this: If a team has available cap room, and if a player on that team meets certain qualifications (i.e., is eligible for a contract extension), then the team can apply that cap room towards the extension as a "bonus".

Hypothetically, the Rockets could have used their $6-7 million in cap room and given all of that money to Dragic on Day One, greatly increasing Dragic's cap figure from $2.108 million to ~$9 million. In exchange, Dragic would presumably agree to a lower annual salary (figure ~$3 million per year) in the later years of his deal.

However, when Dalembert became available, the Rockets--who DESPERATELY needed a true center--opted to abandon that avenue and to sign Dalembert to a cap-friendly contract. (Again, I don't know if Dragic's agent was ever contacted about this, so they may not have walked very far down that avenue. Furthermore, it is entirely possible that Dragic and his agent would have rejected this approach, hoping to get a larger overall contract in unrestricted free agency this summer.)


I know this information will now turn some fans against Morey for opting to sign Dalembert over doing an extension for Dragic. I personally think any such criticism (given the Rockets' desperate need for a center at the time) is ludicrous. But at least fans will know that an extension WAS discussed and can make their judgments having digested this information.

There you have it.

 

That would be the hindsight of hindsights if that was the case.

Thanks for the update though.

 

Well, there is absolutely no doubt Morey thinks through every conceivable option and loop hole.

Now, since no one knows whether Morey discussed any of this with Dragic's agent, let's all not claim we know what would have happened to 100% for certain. We don't know if Dragic would have accepted the "cap room" extension or not. And the RFA route looked too risky for Morey.

There is a possibility Dragic takes an offer and a possibility he rejects offers -- just like this summer.

One thing is for sure, the lockout cramped Morey's ability to discuss this all with Dragic's Agent. They can't talk through the lockout, and I'm pretty sure they can't discuss fancy extensions prior to last June and opting in on the Team Option.

 

That's very true.

 

Thanks Bima.

I don't agree with how Morey works, and agree with OMR, that he needs some charm school lessons, but I understand his thinking.

DD

 

This is very enlightening indeed. And the lockout screwed us in more than one way.

Luck is definitely not on our side. Why did Dragic get this opportunity to blow up just in time to probably price him out of our ability to afford him? Morey is a good GM alright. But maybe he is cursed.

 

Other than Deron Williams, Dragic is probably the most desirable free agent on the market, taking age factors into account. The Rockets have the available cap room. We absolutely can afford him. If Dragic were doing on another team what he's doing on the Rockets now, we'd all be screaming from the rooftops about our opportunity to acquire the star PG we've been seeking for years. Why is this any different? We have the money and should make Goran a priority.

As far as luck and being cursed, I don't think anyone was crying bloody murder over the absurd Stern veto more than me. Right now, though, I think the Rockets are closer to true contention with Dragic, Scola and Martin's trade value (whatever it is) than with Gasol and Nene's bloated contract. You could argue that the lockout unfairly complicated matters, because it did, but none of this would even be happening if things went as planned. I'd say it evens out.

 

You are forgetting Steve Nash. All contenders will make Steve Nash or Deron Williams their priority, Dragic will come third.

The good thing is, because this is the era of the point guard, most non-contenders already have lottery PGs on their team (teams like Cleveland, Washington, Charlotte, GSW etc.). Which means Dragic would only be top priority for teams that are not contending and do not already have a good PG on their team, teams like Portland.

 

You forgot about Lin.

 

Too bad he'll be restricted, and it won't cost more than the MLE for the Knicks to keep him .

If he was unrestricted so much attention would be drawn away Dragic.

 

what is the impetus for this rule?

I thought we wanted to encourage players to stay with their teams.

 

bumping this because I'm curious

Why would either the league or the players want to limit the value of contract extensions?

 

One reason I can think of why the league wants the limit. They don't want players who think they are much better than their contract's value demanding extension in the middle of the season.

 

A pity, since I'd much rather have Goran anyway. I just hope Morey manages to keep him this summer. The Cat makes a good point about the free agent market and what we might want to spend our available cap space on. Right now, I can't think of a better use than locking this guy up. I'm mightily impressed with Dragic, to say the least. Figuring out the Lowry/Dragic situation, should we end up with both (unlikely, but not impossible), is a problem I want our front office to have.

 

I quoted Coon for only the "other extensions" as they apply to Dragic. Extensions for 1st round players coming off their rookie scale is limited only by their maximum salary...not a percentage of their last yr.

The "other extensions" are for vets, so presumably they are already at their market value ... like extending TMac.

the problem is with 2nd round picks looking for their first pay day. That's the problem. 2nd rounders ending their first contract are screwed by extending that first contract. As the NBA draft gets deeper with more foreign players taken (especially in the 2nd round), 2nd rounders should be treated like 1st rounders on their first extension...limited only by maximum pay.

The rule for 2nd rounders not being treated like 1st rounders on extensions needs to be changed.