I should probably start this a year after the election or something but it has been rolling around in my mind. To me Obama is a guy who wanted to help poor black people while at the same time getting some political allies in Chicago so he sought out the big church as a means to get involved. He isn't a christian, but Christianity is widely accepted in the black community so he adopted it. To me this answers the Jeremiah Wright question. He didn't really care what that guy was saying because he was much more interested in getting people legal/financial/etc help, registering voters, and making friends with political clout. It also answers the question of why liberals don't have a problem with his Christianity. The don't think he really believes it, but he is just following a social norm. So to the liberals I am just curious is this your basic view?
Few groups are as stigmatized as atheists in this country, and there's no way one would get nominated for the presidency this side of the 22nd century, so he had to do what he had to do.
To me Obama is a guy who wanted to help poor black people while at the same time getting some political allies in Chicago so he sought out the big church as a means to get involved. He isn't a christian, but Christianity is widely accepted in the black community so he adopted it. He's a politician. How do you know he's not a Christian? Are you familiar with who raised him? I'll help you out: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Family_of_Barack_Obama Barack Obama was raised by his mother Stanley Ann Dunham and grandparents Madelyn and Stanley Armour Dunham Mother - Ann Dunham: Mother of Barack Obama born in 1942, died in 1995. Born Stanley Ann Dunham, she was an American anthropologist who specialized in economic anthropology and rural development. Grandmother - Madelyn Lee Payne Dunham: Barack Obama's maternal grandmother was born in 1922 and died on November 2, 2008.[33] She was a bank vice president in Hawaii. Grandfather - Stanley Dunham: Stanley Dunham is the grandfather of Barack Obama. He was born in 1918 and served as a sergeant in the U.S. Army during World War II, enlisting just after the attacks on Pearl Harbor. Stanley and his wife Madelyn raised Obama in Honolulu, Hawaii. In addition to Obama, Stanley is related to six US presidents: James Madison, Harry Truman, Lyndon Johnson, Jimmy Carter, George H. W. Bush, and George W. Bush. He died in Honolulu, Hawaii, in 1992, and is buried at the Punchbowl National Cemetery. To me this answers the Jeremiah Wright question. He didn't really care what that guy was saying because he was much more interested in getting people legal/financial/etc help, registering voters, and making friends with political clout. He's a politician. It also answers the question of why liberals don't have a problem with his Christianity. The don't think he really believes it, but he is just following a social norm. So to the liberals I am just curious is this your basic view? Why would any sane person care what his religion is? Do you believe that a political figure needs to openly praise his own religion? What does religion have to do with being president? He says he's a Christian, so that's enough for me. What people believe is their personal business and anybody that calls him a liar has some sort of agenda that is completely unrelated to the office of the president.
I have no agenda at all. Why are you saying "I know" he isn't? That isn't the tone of my post at all. You repeating he is a politician seems to be right in line with my OP. Also saying you have to be insane to consider a presidents religion is naive. JFK, GWB and Romney all took major heat for their religion. Keep this to personal opinions of Obama's beliefs and re-read the OP.
My view is: I DON'T GIVE A S**T. And neither should you. A person's religion, or lack thereof, is there own business. What matters is them as a person. Have they done good in their life? Have they done any evil? Are they a generally moral person? You don't need to know their religion to find an answer to this.
Most people do though. I think you would feel differently if Obama constantly says he prayed about decisions or looked for guidance even if all of the other answers to the questions you posed were answered positively.
Read Dreams from My Father. He spells out his religious beliefs in there. Then, as I remember, he didn't believe Jesus was God. He seemed to believe in a very Jeffersonian version of Jesus and God. He has professed a more mainstream Christian belief since then, but I wouldn't be surprised if he still held the more Unitarian belief, and professed a more mainstream belief because it's what his supporters expect.
Odd thread. We don't really know what's in anyone's heart unless we're very close to them. EDIT: I understand being cynical about any politician's professed faith, but I don't know why Obama's would be more suspect than any other, unless one falls into the false notions about him being Islamic. I guess Bush's faith was more believable because of the stereotypical link of recovering alcoholics to fervently embraced faith. I believe Obama is a Christian, and in general I prefer having a person with some faith or another lead the nation. That's the honest truth. Agnostics, I can understand, and I have ventured there. But atheists are at odds with about 96% of humans on earth, and that's fine except if you want to lead a lot of people who have a fundamentally different setting. I consider myself a Christian, and I'm really puzzled by the idea in the OP that somehow liberal and Christian aren't compatible. I know we have a couple of atheists in these here parts, but there are tons of liberal Christians. I'd dare a lot of people truly embracing the word of Christ might find themselves drawn away from socially intolerant positions or wealth accumulation goals more typically associated with the right wing in America. What's not compatible is a typical "liberal" outlook compared to lot of the current evangelical movement in America. That much is true.
for a country that is supposedly to practice freedom of religion, we sure do have a ton of people who care too much about somebody else's religious beliefs.
And another thing: Mr. Obama has stated that he will not make his opponent’s religion or faith an issue in the general election. Do you think Romney will do the same?
Overwhelming majority. Atheists are not immune to it either. I never said they are not compatible. I said liberals tend to have a problem with Christians politically. From doing battle with the "religious right" to making fun of Bush's religion.
Not sure but I doubt he wants that to be an issue considering his religion. If anything Obama has the majority on his side here.
"He isn't a christian, but Christianity is widely accepted in the black community so he adopted it." So you are saying that before he joined the big church, you believe that he didn't believe that Jesus was not the messiah? I know you said you didn't know for sure, because nobody but God can tell what someone truly believes. GWB was a Methodist... but so is Hilary Clinton. JFK being Catholic was groundbreaking at the time, but a Catholic running for office today is no big deal(ie: Newt Gingrich, Sen. Joseph Biden, Sen. Sam Brownback, Gen. Wesley Clark (retired), Sen. Christopher Dodd, former Mayor Rudolph Giuliani, Rep. Dennis Kucinich, former Gov. George Pataki, Gov. Bill Richardson, former Gov. Tommy Thompson, Gov. Tom Vilsack). Romney gets major heat for his religion by people in his own party that don't trust Mormons. Clearly, people are starting to get past it as he will be the nominee over the Evangelical choice of Santorum. My personal opinion and most liberals probably share the same as me towards Obama's beliefs:
That is out of context, it was the finishing thought of a personal opinion/theory. I think he joined for noble reasons that have nothing to do with religion. Mormons get killed from both sides. And my question was does this apathy come from the belief that he is a politician following a social norm.
I have no idea what's in this man's heart. I do believe that he seems to be a person who cares for the poor and has a well formed moral compass, as evidenced from what I see of him as a father and a husband. One doesn't have to subscribe to a particular faith tradition to find those things...and in my faith, I credit those things to the God I know and understand through Jesus. But I'm very hesitant to tell you what the man truly believes when I've never had even a moment of real conversation with him.
I'm not one to think his personal religious beliefs are none of my business. In picking a president, absolutely everything is fair game. And, religion is especially important because a person't theological beliefs form the foundation of their decision-making, especially on big moral issues that presidents will regularly contend with. I'm more interested in what a politician has to say about God than what he has to say about abortion or war or whatever the wedge issue of the day happens to be. So, in the first election, I read a long interview with Obama about his christianity. I think I posted about it. I think he is a sincere christian, but one of such a liberal persuasion that I almost don't recognize it. I would say I'm disappointed in what seems to me as a lack of intellectual rigor in his faith, but that could come from how foreign his brand is from the conservative christians I rub elbows with. I think aside from the people who think he's Muslim, some evangelicals may have a hard time accepting his christianity because it is so theologically liberal. But -- though it's possible he snowed me -- I think his faith is genuine. Some people might prefer to think it is put on, but I don't think so.
I agree with this so much. I was really puzzled by the idea that liberals would be opposed to someone being a Christian. As Christian and liberal I find it really odd that would be an accepted premise in the opening post.
