Would Dragic be playing this well if he was extended?

+1. PGs are important, but the most important piece is the big man, if we don't have a big man, we ain't going anywhere. Big man that can ball are harder to find than PGs that can ball, if given a choice of Dragic, or a big man with similar impact, I think Morey will take the latter. Remember Morey intially traded Martin, Scola, Dragic and 1st round pick just for 1 big man. In the mean time, I do believe Dragic will be playing like this from now and beyond. Goran is a player who just love balling, just like Scola.

 

Depends on what drives him, money? or to win? we'l find out soon enough.

 

I hope that is not the case Dragic is a special talent, imo.

DD

 

I disagree, the Rockets management aren't going to hand out contracts to undeserving players. You work hard and the coaches like you then you'll get paid. Nothing hurts a team more than offering large contracts to players who don't deserve it and could care less once the money rolls in.

 

Fair enough point, Easy. If hindsight reveals that a GM repeatedly and consistently "gets it wrong" (using your Rafer shooting example), then in that limited situation I think it's fair to criticize that GM on the poor results.

I was thinking of "toning down" that statement after I wrote it but was frankly too lazy. My point is that fans far too often use hindsight to justify their own views, even if that justification is illogical. This Dragic thread is a perfect example.

Yes, I defend Morey pretty often, but only when I either agree with him or can at least appreciate the reasoning behind his decisions. For example, I was PISSED when Morey passed up Kawhi Leonard to draft Marcus Morris, and I voiced my displeasure on this BBS. But I at least understood some of the reasoning behind the decision. They viewed the "Morris as a potential star power 3" as a home run swing rather than going for the solid double in Leonard. I didn't agree on the player evaluation, but I appreciated the thought process. Plus, I was so wrong on Brooks and Landry (both picks I hated), I've learned to give Morey the benefit of the doubt.

Morey "misses some shots". But they are almost always "good shots". And his shooting percentage is a hell of a lot better than Rafer's. :grin:

 

The bottom line with all these guys b...ing about Morey is they are bringing no other GM candidates to the table that would be better. Somewhere out there this fella supposedly exists. And most of these guys criticizing Morey would rather take a blind bet on some other unknown GM than to acknowledge that Morey is one of the best in the business.

 

I have gone on record as saying I like Morey and give him a solid B, but I don't think he walks on water like several people on here do, and I hate some of his policies regarding extensions etc, because I believe it hurts our image around the league with agents and players.

Personally, I believe a numbers guy should be the man behind the man, not the front guy....but that is just me.

DD

 

Well the lockout makes things difficult.

We decline the option to make him a restricted FA, three things can happen:
1) We re-sign him to a longer term cheaper deal (ideal)
2) He accepts the qualifying offer to become an unrestricted FA in 2012 (basically making no difference to his situation now)
3) He goes to Europe during the lockout and ends up there during the season (like fellow Slovenian Sasha Vujacic)


Right now he is a Rocket, and clearly, we want him to remain a Rocket. Instead of crying over spilled milk, we should try to do everything we possibly can to re-sign him to a deal.

 

Yeah, I agree with that going forward, but my point was that Morey gets judged by looking backwards at the decisions he made or didn't make.

DD

 

The "no extensions" policy doesn't apply to superstars. Morey would gladly give a superstar a max extension. For instance, I can guaran-damn-tee you that, had the Rockets acquired Dwight Howard this past December, Morey would be waiting with a max extension in his hand once June (and the expiration of the six month waiting period) rolled around.

Unfortunately, the Rockets have had exactly ZERO superstars come up for extensions while Morey's been GM. [Insert complaint about "Why Murray no get superstar?"]

 

I hear ya Bima, but I believe you get what you give, and if you give a little bit of loyalty by offering extensions to the GOOD players like Brooks and Hayes etc...that it resonates around the league and it doesn't handcuff you because you can always move them later.

I don't think Superstars will ever sign here, I think you have to draft one or trade for one....but I do believe you should try to build a core instead of turning over the roster every single year.

DD

 

1. Brooks is not worth the potential $ that he was likely asking for (certainly above the MLE deal that Lowry got) in an extension-- and, just as important, the elimination of pretty much any possibility of having cap space in 2011 free agency.

2. Under the CBA, the most that Chuck Hayes could have been extended for is $2.5 million a year. After being a starter for a whole year in 2009-2010, do you really think Chuck Hayes would have taken $2.5 mil a year instead of taking his chances as an unrestricted FA in 2011? Chuck eventually landed a 4 year, $20 million contract.

3. A reputation for loyalty is all fine and dandy, and probably is a factor in some cases. However, the burden of bad contracts and the reputation for idiocy in handing out such contracts far outweighs any benefit that one might derive from "loyalty."

 

So you rather have vspan instead of Scola or Ariza instead of Courtney Lee or Brooks instead of Dragic or Rafer instead of Lowry?

 

Do you happen to know what he was asking for or is this just a big old guess?

Because even at the MLE or a little above level he would still have suitors around the league (My guess..lol)

No, and I actually did not want him back anyway, so I am going to be happy for Chuck and happy that the Rox are not hampered by his deal.

Yet even though I did not want Chuck and did want Brooks, neither of those contracts would be for BAD players that could not be moved, they are not Matt Maloney types.

And would be easily moved if necessary and allow for greater flexibility in contract matching in trades.

I fundamentally disagree with Morey's way of doing business, I don't think it helps the team in their quest to sign free agents.

DD

 

Option 2 is my whole point. That's what I said. So, you do understand. There is precedent for the player to sign the Qualifying Offer.

Option 2 is Dragic signs the qualifying offer for $2.5m vs the Team Option for $2.1m. He then becomes a UFA this summer.

Morey could not have stopped that. There is no guarantee Morey could force Dragic to sign a RFA mutliyear deal for cheap. If Dragic takes Option 1 prior to proving his current value to the Market and signs a $15m for 4yrs, he would have seriously screwed up "in hindsight," vs Option 2 or current reality.

So stop saying Morey screwed up, just because Dragic didn't.

 

Most players go out and try to get a longer deal, very few go for a 1 year qualifying offer, they almost always take the guaranteed money and security.

You are taking the least likely scenario and trying to build an argument around it.

Technically you are correct, but realistically it rarely happens.

DD

 

Also, there is basically no risk in making him a RFA last year, as you could have locked him up on the cheap, or he is in the same boat as he is now, coming up as an UFA.

The difference is that it could hurt your cap room and I contend that cap room is vastly overated, very rarely do you get a difference maker with cap room, usually you get it in trade, which has been Morey's stated goal all along, and if that is the case than you need contracts to match other contracts in any trade.

To me, I would think the more prudent move was to make him a RFA, by not doing it, what you are essentially saying (at least to me) is you did not really value Goran all that much and did not think he was this good.....

Which gets back to my entire point about this org not being able to evaluate players BEFORE they break out.

DD

 

Uh??? Stop saying Morey screwed up for not refusing the team option when Kirilenko, Chandler, Vujacic, Brooks, etc all left without contracts.

If Dragic goes overseas as a RFA, he comes back to sign the qualifying offer for a month and becomes a free agent. Why is it that Dragic wouldn't do that when others did.

In the lockout scenario, if Dragic enters the lockout with no contract and is forced to not talk to Morey for 6 mos and then has to find Offer Sheets in one week to avoid missing practice time...he might very well blow that off and play overseas....especially if Morey forcing the upper-hand upon him pissed him off.

It is quite possible and no stretch at all that he doesn't return...or signs the qualifying offer (which is far from unprecedented for low salary players who want to start).

 

You forgot many players signed overseas because they didn't have contracts during the lockout and couldn't talk to their GMs until December.

There is definite risk Dragic goes overseas during the lockout.

There is definite risk Morey pisses off Dragic during the lockout...if he doesn't take the Team Option.