Would Dragic be playing this well if he was extended?

What blame?!?!?!

He traded [seven weeks of Aaron Brooks] for Goran Dragic and a first round pick!

He locked Dragic up for this season on a dirt-cheap team option that benefited the Rockets, cap-wise, in other areas.

And now, Dragic is playing out of his mind--at a level that no person alive, Goran included, could have anticipated--and you want to complain that Morey didn't forego his cheap team option and instead locked a then-far-less-impressive Dragic up on a long-term deal?

Man, some critics can never be pleased.

 

I was not aware that we could not have offered him more than 2.5 M per year starting salary. Who knows, maybe we even offered that, and he didn't take it. Makes it kind of a moot discussion, as he would most probably not have taken it if offered.

 

Don't get me wrong. I think Morey is a good GM. I am just saying that if we give him credits from hindsight (including getting Dragic for Brooks) then we should also critique him from hindsight. Is that not reasonable? Sometimes I get a feeling that whenever a decision is criticized after we knew how good (or bad) a player is, there is always the excuse of hindsight. Yet there seldom is anyone pointing out that the "smart" moves are also hindsight too.

We knew Brooks for Dragic is good from hindsight. What if Dragic turned out to be trash and Brooks was tearing it up in Phoenix? Then you would say that's from hindsight.

 

Hey, you guys are the ones coming up with a GM stunt that no GM has ever done before as a way to question Morey. You're not allowed to pose even more hypotheticals without answering mine.

Dragic is not really making peanuts, Budinger and Jeremy Lin are -- $2.1m is up there with bottom 1st rounders. If we forced RFA on him, what do you think he would have been offered in December? on the market as an RFA?

If Dragic doesn't "know that he was going to have a chance to showcase his worth" that's my point...that's all the more reason NOT to sign with Houston as an RFA, before you can showcase yourself. Why would he sign long term and never get a chance vs leaving probably only $1-1.5m on the table to become an unrestricted free agent at the end of the year.

Why would he lock himself into a long deal if he doesn't know his market worth and doesn't really get to pick which team he plays for.

How do we know another team would have offered him >$3m? We don't know that?

Taking away a player's ability to be an unrestricted FA can piss them off, especially before he had any significant starter minutes to show the market what he can do. If they want the big pay day, you are essentially stealing it from them.

I'm not saying it is for sure to piss them off, but there is a chance.

Dragic's Agent if Morey pulls a stunt to Force RFA on him
Here is what the Agent would say when Morey refuses the team option. "Goran, they are making you test the market right now, so they can lock you in long-term below what Lowry and Brooks signed for. Trust me; I know how Morey thinks. We can do that and maybe get a $3.5-4m offer and risk them matching and you never becoming a starter for Houston, or we can sign the qualifying offer for the same as what the team option would have been. Then you are unrestricted. So if you want to go for the big pay day, we would sign the qualifying offer.

 

yeah, everyone agree that the original OP is moot. But keep up, we've moved to another discussion.

The new discussion is technically Morey could have chose not to pickup the Team Option and made Dragic into a Restricted Free Agent last summer (well, December after the lockout).

The theory is (which I question) is Dragic is more than happy to sign the highest offer he can get even if it is under what Brooks and Lowry got. And he's more than happy to sign long term with the Rockets with no guarantee of being a starter. Dragic would have had the option to sign the Qualifying Offer >$2.1m become unrestricted just like he is now.

Also, this theory ignores all the flexibility Morey needed for trades in December.

But, it is a way to bash Morey for not using a technical stunt to obstensibly lock in Dragic at under $4m last summer, as if all that would actually play out.

 

How come T-Will got pissed when we DIDNT pick up his option and made him be a free agent SOONER, before he got significant minutes?


There are some players that want the option? Or maybe its a case-by-case thing.

Though from years ago when Lebron & D-Wade signed shorter extensions instead of the long extension, we learned players and agents DO strategically try to use unrestricted free agency to draw in as much money as they can.

 

I think it doesn't matter what he is paid. Gogi would play hard regardless.

 

TWill was not a second rounder who you could force into restricted free agency.

First rounders are almost never dropped without the team picking up the option unless the team doesn't care about them anymore...because it makes them unrestricted vs restricted.

 

I think Morey not making him restricted for this year was a major goof, he could have locked him up for a cheap deal ala Lowry, but was protecting cap room for some mythical superstar that wants to play in Houston.

DD

 

That's why I don't like using hindsight to judge whether a trade was a good one AT THE TIME IT WAS MADE.

For instance, I was rather lukewarm to the trade for Dragic. I liked Dragic as a player and liked the idea of adding an extra first rounder, but I felt like we were giving up the better player (Brooks) and were giving up on trying to re-sign him before the bidding even began. Still, the trade made perfect sense, so it wasn't hard for me to be on board with it.

By contrast, the trade for Terrence Williams--what is now, with the benefit of hindsight, widely considered Morey's worst move as GM--was a move I was perfectly happy with. At the time, the Rockets were trading a mid- to late first rounder a couple of years in the future (or later) in exchange for a guy they had rated as a top-10 pick on their draft board in 2009. It was a great (relatively) low risk-high reward move.

I think most moves don't turn out EXACTLY like the teams' respective GMs expect them to. Some turn out better than they possibly could have hoped, others end up being regrettable. Most end up in a range in between.

If I liked a trade at the time and it turns out poorly, I'll still stand by the reasoning at the time, as long as it's sound or at least logical. If I don't like a trade that turns out great, I'll gladly accept that outcome.

Hindsight is the fans' way of pretending they know better than their GM. I don't like to play that game.

 

Let me explain a bit further, I have been on the organization for their lack of talent evaluation.

So far they have let Lin go, when he was a keeper - apparently they did not see that he would be this good.

They picked up TWill for a first - apparently they missed the malcontent portion and didn't check with their coach as to whether he would even play him once he was traded for.....another organizational goof.

And with Dragic, they decided to forgoe making him a restricted free agent, which would have locked him up for a few years at a cheap contract - obviously because they had no intention of keeping him, again they miscalculated his abilities - which to me, is another goof of theirs by not recognizing talent, that they had in camp or on the team.

ANYONE can recognize NBA talent after it has proven it on the NBA floor, and our guys have done a decent job of recognizing talent in college that would translate into decent role players in the NBA.

But, it seems that once we have them on the roster, we fail in some cases to recognize just how good some of them are without ever giving them a chance to prove it on the floor.

And because of that, we end up putting ourselves in position of potentially losing the guy with the highest upside on the rosters just as he is entering his prime.

I think that is a pretty telling failure on the organizations abilities to recognize upside.

And that, my good friends, is their main job......something they HAVE to be good at.....

Morey keeps talking about having guys on his roster with high upside, that is what he likes....well he has one.....and that guy is an UFA because he failed to see what talent he had and how it translated with more playing time.

UGH !

DD

 

The difference Bima is we don't get judged on our performance by hindsight, we don't have the resources or the personal look at the players in order to properly judge them.

THEY DO, and it is THEIR JOB to extrapolate out how good they will be or not be.....

When we have lapses in judgement it calls into question the very abilities of this staff to evaluate players, doesn't it?

It certainly does to me.

DD

 

You don't know that Morey could have signed Dragic at all. Dragic might have viewed it as an insult to force his hand to stay at "cheap" price. Dragic could have turned down a low ball bid, signed the qualifying offer and played the year at equal money as he is now and still became an unrestricted free agent.

Even if he does sign an offer sheet with another team, what makes you think he signs more than one year...and then we are back in the same boat matching a one year except paying him more???????????????

You are making assumptions. We don't know what would have happened if we made him RFA.

 

No, you are misunderstanding, by declining the option for THIS season, Goran would have been a RESTRICTED free agent before this year, and the Rockets could/would match whatever deal he would have been offered.

And he would not have gotten such a big deal before this year, now would he?

DD

 

PS, offer sheets can not be for one year anymore under the new CBA, thanks for playing HP.

DD

 

DD, I think this is one of the weakest arguments you have ever made. And that is saying something.

But I'm going to skip right to the "agree to disagree" part and save myself the next couple of hours of my life.

I've got to catch up on my TV shows. DVR's too full.

 

Hah - fair enough, the final point I will make is that the GM is judged post events.

If he fails to recognize talent and it explodes elsewhere too often, he gets fired for it.

It is his job to recognize talent and find ways to keep the best players, if he can't do that, he can't be a good GM.

DD

 

actually you are misunderstanding.

You are assuming forcing him to become an RFA would have guaranteed we signed Dragic for a cheap deal THIS YEAR. You is not 100% certain at all.

Dragic does not have to sign any offer sheets. You can't make him. You can't make him sign a cheap deal for multiple years.

Let me repeat:

• Dragic can sign the qualifying offer 1yr. Then he becomes an unrestricted free again this summer. He still makes over $2m but is free at the end.

You cannot say Morey could have got him longterm at a cheap deal. You simply don't know that.

 

1. How is that any different than the situation they are in now?

2. Teams can not offer 1 year deals any longer.

3. Yes, I am assuming they would have matched an offer he would have gotten IF, a big IF, they recognized his talent.

I don't think they had plans for him beyond this year, which to me, is just as alarming because they clearly did not see him as someone who is as good as he clearly is.

DD

 

Wow this is quotable quote material right here. Do you even realize Morey was the guy who traded for Dragic, which is why you're getting on him? Who do you think drafted Parsons, got Scola, Landry, Patterson, now DMo etc. etc. etc. If there's one thing Morey's good at, its probably talent evaluation and his body of work speaks for himself. Ragging on Morey for not being a good talent evaluator is like saying Thabeet's a midget.

This has already been discussed to death. Do you even read other people's posts or do you just post your crap and then leave the site? Simmons said it best in his interview, DM was only one of three GMs who even gave Lin the time of day. If you're gonna call him a goof for releasing Lin, what do you call the 30 other GMs who didn't even know he existed?

They didn't miss the malcontent portion, I think anybody could see he had issues a mile away. That's what you call a low-risk, high reward bet, DM was betting RA could straighten him out the way Pops straightened out S-jax or PJ straightened out Rodman. It didn't pan out for us, but at the time DM thought a lottery pick T-will was worth giving up a non lottery pick. I didn't agree with it then, but the logic behind it was solid. As to whether the coach would play him, how would Mchale know if he was gonna play him or not before he saw him on the team?

They didn't forego on making him a FA, they just didn't extend him. I don't agree with that policy but if they're gonna do it they should do it consistently, and not extend some players but then still talk about not giving extensions as a whole. If the Rox were the type of org to give extensions we would not have had Dragic in the first place, as we would have extended Brooks to a 6-9M contract after his MIP year which would have made him untradable when he got injured.

Weren't you the dude who said C-bud is on his way to stardom, and that Lowry will never be better than Brooks because he's a "backseat kind of player"? Considering how many wrong player evaluations you have made I would have thought you at least can see its hard to project player careers because a lot of that can change. PHX had him for 3 years and gave him and a pick up for Brooks despite seeing what he can do in the playoffs, and playing in a system which emphasizes PG play. Evaluating players is hard, and most of it is hit-or-miss especially when it comes to young players.

I'm not saying Morey's FO is perfect, but you seem to be criticizing them for the little stuff which don't really matter in the big picture.

Like how you keep making Lin go like its a big deal and an indication the FO doesn't know how to evaluate talent. I guess in your mind letting the 4rth pg go to open space for Dalembert is equal to flipping Alston for Lowry and flipping Brooks for Dragic, or the draft steals Morey and his staff keeps making year after year with low draft picks.