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[Racism] What is the point?

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by roxxfan, Apr 5, 2012.

  1. Rashmon

    Rashmon Member

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    Everybody's talking about
    Bagism, Shagism, Dragism, Madism, Ragism, Tagism
    This-ism, that-ism, is-m, is-m, is-m.

    All we are saying is give peace a chance
    All we are saying is give peace a chance
     
  2. across110thstreet

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    -Ism's in my opinion are not good. A person should not believe in an -ism, he should believe in himself. I quote John Lennon, "I don't believe in Beatles, I just believe in me." Good point there. After all, he was the walrus. I could be the walrus. I'd still have to bum rides off people.
     
  3. Batman Jones

    Batman Jones Member

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    A bullet from the back of a bush took Medgar Evers’ blood
    A finger fired the trigger to his name
    A handle hid out in the dark
    A hand set the spark
    Two eyes took the aim
    Behind a man’s brain
    But he can’t be blamed
    He’s only a pawn in their game

    A South politician preaches to the poor white man
    “You got more than the blacks, don’t complain.
    You’re better than them, you been born with white skin,” they explain.
    And the Negro’s name
    Is used it is plain
    For the politician’s gain
    As he rises to fame
    And the poor white remains
    On the caboose of the train
    But it ain’t him to blame
    He’s only a pawn in their game

    The deputy sheriffs, the soldiers, the governors get paid
    And the marshals and cops get the same
    But the poor white man’s used in the hands of them all like a tool
    He’s taught in his school
    From the start by the rule
    That the laws are with him
    To protect his white skin
    To keep up his hate
    So he never thinks straight
    ’Bout the shape that he’s in
    But it ain’t him to blame
    He’s only a pawn in their game


    From the poverty shacks, he looks from the cracks to the tracks
    And the hoofbeats pound in his brain
    And he’s taught how to walk in a pack
    Shoot in the back
    With his fist in a clinch
    To hang and to lynch
    To hide ’neath the hood
    To kill with no pain
    Like a dog on a chain
    He ain’t got no name
    But it ain’t him to blame
    He’s only a pawn in their game.

    Today, Medgar Evers was buried from the bullet he caught
    They lowered him down as a king
    But when the shadowy sun sets on the one
    That fired the gun
    He’ll see by his grave
    On the stone that remains
    Carved next to his name
    His epitaph plain:
    Only a pawn in their game

    - Bob Dylan (duh)
     
  4. cml750

    cml750 Member

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    There are some people who stand way too much to lose if racism ever ended. Honestly, I believe there have been great strides to end racism. I honestly do not know a single person personally who is racist. When I was a small child, I heard a friends father refer to a black man with the "N" word. The next time I saw a black man on television, I repeated the "N" word not knowing it it had any derogatory meaning in front of my mother. My mother went ballistic. I never got in so much trouble in my life as that day. I got a lesson on how we are "all children of God" and that has stuck with me to this day. I do not judge anyone based on their skin color.
     
  5. SunsRocketsfan

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    Probably going to get flamed for this but I am really not trying to be racist since I really dont see one race as being superior to another just different. Yes we are all human beings and we all generally have the same goals/missions in life to be happy, have fun, have a family, be successful and support your loved ones. But I don't see it as racist to recognize that we are not all created exactly the same. From a simple analogy let's look at Dogs. There is quite a huge variety in different dog breeds. There are big dogs, small dogs, furry dogs, hairless dogs, atheltic dogs, fat dogs, etc, etc. Some breeds are clearly more intelligent than others and some are clearly more atheltic than others. You are never going to get a corgi to win in a sprint. So why is it such a far stretch to recognize that our genes are not all equally distributed through out the races. I mean I guess eventually we will all interbreed and we might not have this issue anymore but only recently (in general terms) have all the different races started to intermingle ;).
    I think the general concensus is that genes determine a variety of things from health issues, height, athletic abilities, intelligence, etc. I don't see it as a far stretch that some of the genes that controls these atributes might be more prevalent in one race over another. Doesn't mean everyone in a particular race is predisposed to certain traits but that certain genes/traits might be more prevalent in specific races.

    Anyways here are some interesting article that supports that theory regarding intelligence. You can google and there have been plenty of studies that look at athleticism and race also.

    http://www.halfsigma.com/2007/10/race-difference.html
     
  6. Dubious

    Dubious Member

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    It's genetic, procreative instinct. Symbiotic units support you and your progeny against outside competitors.
     
    #26 Dubious, Apr 5, 2012
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2012
  7. JayGoogle

    JayGoogle Member

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    Well if you believe in science then I guess it makes sense that some humans are born smarter than others and some more physically adept than others and so on and so on.

    I mean just look at Lebron James. He's obviously a physically gifted person but I don't think it's because of his skin color.

    I think it's because his ancestors and past relatives genes had something to do with his physical ability.

    Point being, the gene that indicates whether someone is intelligent is NOT tied to the gene that decides how much melanin one has, what their eye color is or hair color. Racist people can't separate the two, they simply clump all colors of people together.

    So the difference between dogs and humans is that dogs are bred this way. Through years and years they are. Humans are not.

    There are definitely people who are born with gifts thanks to the genes granted to them by their parents.

    I'm sure if Griner and Lebron were to hook up and have a kid it's very likely this kid say it's a boy is going to turn out over 6'6 easily with amazing hops and speed and agility. (and still there is a chance this doesn't happen) But that isn't likely to happen simply because Griner sounds and looks like man...

    The interbreeding part though...well most of us are now. Most people are not purely white or black.

    While Dogs have been separated and domesticated, Humans have not obviously. We are all mutts in the end. Especially in the huge melting pot that has become all of both North and South America.
     
  8. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Member

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    As JayGoogle noted dogs have been bred for centuries for specific traits while humans have not. If you look at wolves you don't see the same variation of traits. The other problem with saying that different traits are more prevalent in races is that unlike dogs humans live much longer and human development is very different. Genes aren't destiny but depend on a variety of environmental factors. Genes for intelligence and strength might never be expressed if there isn't an environment that provides enough protein to develop a good brain and muscles.

    The other issue is that intelligence is always a tricky thing to measure. As technologically advanced people we look at New Guinean tribesman as being backward an not as intelligent yet how many of us if dumped into a jungle could figure out how to survive.
     
  9. amaru

    amaru Member

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    Racism in the United States today is a result of European exploitation and attempted genocide of the Native population as well as the kidnapping, forced immigration and expliotation of African people.

    These actions had to be justified and the idea that people of these groups were inherently inferior soothed the guilt of the masses.
     
  10. SunsRocketsfan

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    Agree with some of the stuff that you say. But we always believe we are so different from animals. In the end we are just animals. Even though we have not been bred for specific traits, humans for the most part prior to the last century have been relatively isolated from one another. I really don't think it's far fetched to see how humans in differnet environments will adapt to certain traits/genes that help them to survive.

    I 100% agree with your issue on intelligence and how it's tricky to measure. Which is why I was saying I am not trying to be racist but just really trying to recognize that we are not all created exactly the same. I think that is why people always look at these studies and scream racisim. They have a view that having a higher IQ means you are superior. I really don't see it that way. Having a higher IQ is generally what is accepted as a definition of being intelligent. Is it possible certain Asians/Europeans have genes/traits that allow them to excel on IQ tests? I definitely think so as noted from the study above. Does a higher IQ mean you are superior and will be more successful than someone with a lower IQ? Umm definitely not. In fact from my experience in corporate America I would say most people with what we generally percieve as being highly intelligent are engineers and scientists that work for someone who makes twice their salary. People have different strengths and someone that might find the a cure for cancer might be horrible at managing people and getting people to work together. I think if we can get past the view that having a higher IQ (only one form of intellignce) equals superiority we can look at these studies with out screaming racist.

    I have no doubt in my mind that African Americans have certain traits/genes in their gene pool that allow them to be bigger, stronger, faster, more athletic in general than other ethnicities. Does that mean you are not going to find an athletic asian or caucasian? Nope but that those genes that control those traits might be more prevalent in african americans. All ethnicities are definitely not the same. You can clearly see this in certain diseases that only affect certain races. Our muscles, bone structure, etc all develop slightly differently. The brain is just another muscle/organ in the body that behaves the same way. Anyways I always find these studies interesting and never really look at them as trying to prove one race is superior to another but to identify that ways we are similar and different. Of course back to my original comment a few hundred/thousand years from now we will all be a mix of something :grin: So better do your part and get the process started and mate with as many people of different ethnicities as possible.
     
  11. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Member

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    Of course humans are different but the human genome has shown there is more variation among races than there is overall between races so trait differences for races for the most part average out.

    While the certain races have a higher likelyhood towards certain genetic traits, such as Sickle Cell Anemia for people descended from black sub-Saharan Africans Racism as a way to judge people though isn't based upon looking at traits like that but about judging superiority. The problem with that though is that if we consider things like intelligence as superiority then a long long time ago natural selection would've imparted among all human populations roughly equal intelligence otherwise our species wouldn't have survived to make it out of Africa. Intelligence is expressed in different ways so someone might have the intelligence to track and kill prey in a jungle and someone might have the intelligence to build a microprocessor but overall the capacity of most humans are the same.

    That applies to other traits and while we have certain populations like pygmies a race is such a vast group that covers many diverse environments that there is enough variation to favor a wide development of traits. The things that you are seeing, such as more athletic blacks, versus brainier Asians, has more to do with cultural adaptions or very specific populations whose inhabitants have adapted. For African-Americans historically due to racism educational and other opportunities weren't as available to them so they turned to sports. Kenyans and Ethiopians excel in distance running because for most of their history they lived in high altitudes as herders and running long distances was required by their environment. The vast majority of Asians in America are a self-selected group of the most ambitious who immigrated here. Keep in mind that prior to the 1960's the stereotype of Chinese were decadent, lazy, opium smokers.

    Also if you are going to site black Americans success in sport as an indication of genetic superiority of that race keep in mind that pretty much every descendent of African slaves also has a fair amount of white European genes in them.
     
  12. langal

    langal Member

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    You don't there are racists in Socialist countries? I would hazard to guess that a black in Soviet Russia would face a lot more racism than he or she would in the U.S. I would also guess that there is less racism in the US than in Europe.

    Imagine the outrage if the US Basketball team had a "chinky eye" marketing campaign. In Spain, I suppose it's all ok. Calderon says he has no regrets.
     

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