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Yet Another New Lottery Idea: Limited Rookie Free Agency

Discussion in 'NBA Dish' started by heypartner, Apr 5, 2012.

  1. heypartner

    heypartner Member

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    I'm pretty sure no one else has suggested adding a limited Free Agency phase to the lottery, whereby you give all lotto teams a weighted (based on different maximum salary per team) at three top rookies and those top rookies have some control).

    Primary Goals:
    • No more Ping Pong Balls
    • Worst teams no longer have a guarantee of best players (no tanking incentive)
    • Fiscally responsible teams are rewarded

    How it works:

    Prior to the draft, there is a Free Agency Phase whereby lotto teams make sealed bids (given to league office) to any player in the draft (but only one bid per lottery draft position they own). The players with the three highest offers (as a sum total of all offers given to the player) become free agents to choose one offer or decline them all and enter the draft.

    Teams who sign a player obviously have just used their 1st round selection and everyone moves up. Once three players have signed or all remaining rookies have declined offers, the normal draft begins.

    Brief Rules:
    • Teams above the cap cannot participate in the Free Agency phase.
    • Teams who sign a rookie as a Free Agent cannot do so again for X amount of years
    • Maximum offers are determined by drafting position and cap room. (See below)

    Maximum Offers

    Currently, at the end of a rookie scale term, maximum salary for the player is 300% of their rookie scale. The maximum offers accelerates this to 1st year, but it must fit within the team's cap. However, the maximum offer is based on the rookie scale of the drafting position of the team...not the player.

    • Again, only teams with cap room can make offers within the Free Agency phase
    • Teams can make offers up to 300% of rookie scale for their drafting position
    • All offers *must* fit within available cap room, or must be no more than standard rookie scale.
    • Teams with multiple lottery picks must fit the sum of all their offers within their cap room, no matter if they win both bids or not.

    Yes, this does mean the Knicks would have had a great shot at Kyrie Irving last year. Maybe you can skew the Maximum salary more in favor of the worst teams. I don't think there is any way around what the Knicks did. Note they did it for the blockbuster free agency summer -- which was guaranteed to happen. I doubt they do it for a rookie or have the time to plan for such a thing.

    Possible Tweaks
    To prevent a big market team from clearing cap room for one year and tanking down to #14, you could make a rule that teams who already have a maximum players are limited to standard rookie scale bids. A #14 slot bid would be very low for a top players, AND it could actually make that player fall out of the Top 3 highest offered players eliminating the free agency option for that player.

    Also, you could retain the ping pong balls. Which would make it exciting for team just out of the lottery, who fall back down to the lottery as teams who sign FA rookies relinquish their slot.

    Thoughts? Is it sacrilegious to allow rookies to have a limited decision to pick their team; albeit, they potentially could leave enormous amounts of money on the table.
     
  2. AMS

    AMS Member

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    Too confusing.
     
  3. JayZ750

    JayZ750 Member

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    Too complicated. Plus, even with cap taken into account, would still ultimately favor teams better prepared to spend and ultimately go into luxury tax territory if necessary.
     
  4. Yung-T

    Yung-T Member

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    Would favor big market teams, don't like it. KD would've never signed with OKC, same wit Kyrie and Cleveland.
     
  5. heypartner

    heypartner Member

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    Thanks for input. What is complicated about it? I thought it's less complicated than Free Agency rules in general. Did I just spell it out too much?

    Simplified explanation.
    • Strongly eliminates tanking incentives, and gives mediocre teams legitimate shot at #1
    • Maximum of 3 players get limited free agency
    • Lotto teams with cap room can bid on them
    • To give the worse teams an advantage, Maximum Offers are a function of drafting position.

    The rest is details.
     
    #5 heypartner, Apr 5, 2012
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2012
  6. heypartner

    heypartner Member

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    That's somewhat the point. Tanking no longer guarantees you anything. Isn't that the whole point of people suggesting anti-Tanking ideas.

    The big market team would have to have cap room, and one of my tweaks was that you could say teams with a max franchise player already cannot participate. So, you'd have to have cap room and no franchise player.
     
  7. bnb

    bnb Member

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    I don't get the zeal to change dramatically the draft. The lotto already addressed the San Antonio tank....and I can't think of any other team, since then, that's benefited from a tank (without that tank being accompanied by a tonne of luck). Houston's 2002 #1 was much more luck than planned.

    Possibly expand the lotto to all 14 spots? Changing the weighting to be less beneficial to the worst teams makes intuitive sense -- but practically, the ones more apt to tank are the mediocre bubble teams. I suppose you could consider giving a minuscule chance to the first round exits too.

    But, overall, I think the current system is probably the simplest of the fairer systems out there. There was some good analysis in the "Houston should tank" GARM thread on what a crap shoot the lotto is anyways.
     
  8. heypartner

    heypartner Member

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    Yes, he definitely does not go to OKC because they were over the cap and had only the #5 draft position -- pre Lottery.

    I did a really quick check of that year...according to Patricia Bender's salary page, only three teams were under the Cap to qualify for the Free Agency phase of the draft.

    Under the Cap with Pre Lottery Position
    Memphis -- with the #1 pick
    Atlanta -- with the #4 pick
    Charlotte -- with the #8 pick

    All three of those teams are small market, with high picks anyhow. They would have bid on either Oden or Durant.

    So as long as Memphis doesn't waste their bid on Oden, they had the best chance at Durant.

    See how this works?
     
  9. heypartner

    heypartner Member

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    I had some time at lunch....soooo :)
    Here's an illustration of what last year's draft Free Agency phase would have looked like. Notice the Rockets jump to the #10 spot in amount of money to bid on a player. Kyrie might sign with LAC to be with Blake, but he'd have to leave $25m on the table.

    And since each team can only bid on 1 player, we can assume at least 5 teams will make offers to Irving and Derrick Williams. The Rockets could potentially get a very high lotto pick to sign with them, if they pick someone who didn't get too many offers. Jonas Valanciunas might have been a real possibility.

    <style type="text/css">kevin {background-color: #CD1010; color: #FFF} green {background-color: #00CC00; color: #FFF} table.tableizer-table {border: 1px solid #CCC; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12px;} .tableizer-table td {padding: 4px; margin: 3px; border: 1px solid #ccc;} .tableizer-table th {background-color: #CD1010; color: #FFF; font-weight: bold;} </style><table><tr><td><table class="tableizer-table"> <tr ><th>Pos</th><th>Team</th><th>Max Bid</th><th>5yr Total</th><th>Bid Rank</th></tr> <tr><td>1</td><td>Minnesota</td><td style="background-color: #F3F781;">$10m</td><td>$63.0m</td><td >2</td></tr><tr><td>2</td><td>Cleveland</td><td>$3.8m</td><td>$23.9m</td><td >11</td></tr><tr><td>3</td><td>Toronto</td><td style="background-color: #81F781;">$10.2m</td><td>$64.2m</td><td>1</td></tr><tr><td>4</td><td>Washington</td><td style="background-color: #81F781;">$9.3m</td><td>$58.6m</td><td>3</td></tr><tr><td>5</td><td>Sacramento</td><td style="background-color: #81F781;">$8.4m</td><td>$52.9m</td><td >4</td></tr><tr><td>6</td><td>Utah</td><td>$2.5m</td><td>$15.7m</td><td>12</td></tr><tr><td>7</td><td>Detroit</td><td style="background-color: #81F781;">$7.0m</td><td>$44.1m</td><td >5</td></tr><tr><td>8</td><td>LAC</td><td style="background-color: #81F781;">$6.3m</td><td>$39.7m</td><td >6</td></tr><tr><td>9</td><td>Charlotte</td><td style="background-color: #81F781;">$5.9m</td><td>$37.2m</td><td >7</td></tr><tr><td>10</td><td>Milwaukee</td><td style="background-color: #81F781;">$5.6m</td><td>$35.3m</td><td >8</td></tr><tr><td>11</td><td>Golden State</td><td style="background-color: #81F781;">$5.3m</td><td>$33.4m</td><td >9</td></tr><tr><td>12</td><td>Utah</td><td>$1.7m</td><td>$10.7m</td><td >13</td></tr><tr><td>13</td><td>Phoenix</td><td style="background-color: #CD1010; color: #FFF">$0m</td><td>$0m</td><td >NA</td></tr><tr><td>14</td><td>Houston</td><td style="background-color: #81F781;">$4.5m</td><td>$28.3</td><td >10</td></tr></table></td><td><table class="tableizer-table"> <tr ><th>Pos</th><th>Team</th><th>Max Bid</th><th>5yr Total</th><th>Bid Rank</th></tr> <tr><td>3</td><td>Toronto</td><td style="background-color: #81F781;">$10.2m</td><td>$64.2m</td><td >1</td></tr><tr><td>1</td><td>Minnesota</td><td style="background-color: #F3F781;">$10m</td><td>$63.0m</td><td >2</td></tr><tr><td>4</td><td>Washington</td><td style="background-color: #81F781;">$9.3m</td><td>$58.6m</td><td >3</td></tr><tr><td>5</td><td>Sacramento</td><td style="background-color: #81F781;">$8.4m</td><td>$52.9m</td><td >4</td></tr><tr><td>7</td><td>Detroit</td><td style="background-color: #81F781;">$7.0m</td><td>$44.1m</td><td >5</td></tr><tr><td>8</td><td>LAC</td><td style="background-color: #81F781;">$6.3m</td><td>$39.7m</td><td >6</td></tr><tr><td>9</td><td>Charlotte</td><td style="background-color: #81F781;">$5.9m</td><td>$37.2m</td><td >7</td></tr><tr><td>10</td><td>Milwaukee</td><td style="background-color: #81F781;">$5.6m</td><td>$35.3m</td><td >8</td></tr><tr><td>11</td><td>Golden State</td><td style="background-color: #81F781;">$5.3m</td><td>$33.4m</td><td >9</td></tr><tr><td>14</td><td>Houston</td><td style="background-color: #81F781;">$4.5m</td><td>$28.3m</td><td>10</td></tr><tr><td>2</td><td>Cleveland</td><td>$3.8m</td><td>$23.9m</td><td >11</td></tr><tr><td>6</td><td>Utah</td><td>$2.5m</td><td>$15.7m</td><td >12</td></tr><tr><td>12</td><td>Utah</td><td>$1.7m</td><td>$10.7m</td><td >13</td></tr><tr><td>13</td><td>Phoenix</td><td style="background-color: #CD1010; color: FFF">$0m</td><td>$0m</td><td >NA</td></tr></table></td></tr></table>
    Green = a maximum offer up to 300% of draft position rookie scale
    Yellow = maximum for the player's cap room but less that <300% full max
    others are standard rookie scale values, because the team didn't have enough caproom.
    Phoenix had no caproom so are ineligible to bid.
     
  10. Easy

    Easy Boban Only Fan
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    Tanking is one thing to address. The other is the fact that the current system clearly rewards losing and punishes well-managed teams in the treadmill: http://bbs.clutchfans.net/showthread.php?t=217954
     
  11. Easy

    Easy Boban Only Fan
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    HP, there would have been more teams, including big market teams, that would have cap room if your system was in place because of the added incentive for getting under the cap.
     
  12. DaonlyLA

    DaonlyLA Member

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    I rather have a college point system to award lottery teams who play hard and win games at the end of the season... with only the top 10 being a lottery system.. and it being calculated not only by record...
     
  13. heypartner

    heypartner Member

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    Agree. But look at my second table for last year, which is probably more like what we'd see. Look how much money the top worse teams have to spend. Even at a maximum bid for a #14 slot, Houston as $36m less to offer than Toronto.

    What do you think of my tweak that teams who already have maximum salary vets (franchise players) cannot participate in the rookie Free Agency. Wouldn't that eliminate the big teams....and distribute the Top rookies to teams who need them.

    Plus, it would make a disincentive to sign vets to max deals, since you'd forgo your rookie Free Agency ability.
     
  14. rocketkid713

    rocketkid713 Member

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    do you really have time for this? :rolleyes::confused::rolleyes:
     
  15. xiki

    xiki Member

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    I like the idea pretty generally, pretty much. BTW - - your ex. here says no Hakeem if Ralph.

    BTW - - I would have thought the recent unpleasantness (Lockout) would have addressed issues like this/these due to efforting to be punative towards high-tax teams as well as tankers.

    BTW II - - I had anticipated something like Bottom 3 (or 4?) teams only in Lotto.
     
  16. RocketsMAN!

    RocketsMAN! Member

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    Still less confusing than NFL salary cap.
     
  17. what

    what Member

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    idk, this all sounds like more about giving teams that have no business having a shot at the #1 player the advantage in the draft.

    I still don't see how this addresses the core issue: which is tanking. For while you succeed in screwing the worst teams in the league, by making their poor season irrelevant, you encourage teams that are are on the fringe of a playoff berth to tank to get in the draft.

    Point 1: giving equal weight to all the lottery teams does not solve tanking. It just screws the worst teams in the league.
    Point 2: fiscal responsibility is one thing; Anthony Davis's agent is another. If there is marginal financial benefits to go from one team to a lower team in terms of salary; the endorsement gains of a big market team will ALWAYS be the deciding factor.

    This approach is deeply flawed, imo.
     
  18. Easy

    Easy Boban Only Fan
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    I think it should apply to all Free Agency in general. You can't sign another max player if you already have one. No more Superfriends teams.
     

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