Ind. Gov signs bill allowing deadly force against Cops.

"Illegally" entering.

 

why don't our cops use tranquilizer guns instead of real bullets or tazers?

seems like this could be a dangerous tactic, there are a lot of people who think cops in general are corrupt and they might consider taking the law into their own hands.

if only there was a better system for disciplining and investigating police...

 

Why do I stay loyal to this party again?

 

not to mention it says "if they think"

very risky

 

What kind of bizzaro law is that? Did someone lose their ****ing mind?

 

Fly, meet bazooka.

I liked Mitch Daniels a lot before this. The fact he had to explain, "this law is not an invitation to use violence or force against law enforcement officers" puts this up in the Twilight Zone.

Need to read more about this after work.

 

I can see stupid cases where people are arguing "they thought" the officer had entered illegally. Is a police officer going to have to walk into the house holding the warrant in front of him?

 

Just to be clear, I support gun ownership, but there is a point of absurdity beyond which lies chaos. This is one of those, IMO.

 

http://boston.cbslocal.com/2012/01/31/fbi-uses-chainsaw-in-raid-on-wrong-fitchburg-apartment/

January 31, 2012 11:59 PM

<script type='text/javascript' src='http://video.boston.cbslocal.com/global/video/videoplayer.js?rnd=51276;hostDomain=video.boston.cbslocal.com;playerWidth=320;playerHeight=240;isShowIcon=true;clipId=6694330;flvUri=;partnerclipid=;adTag=News;advertisingZone=CBS.BOSTON%252Fworldnowplayer;enableAds=true;landingPage=;islandingPageoverride=false;playerType=STANDARD_EMBEDDEDscript;controlsType=fixed'></script>

FITCHBURG (CBS) – It’s going to be a while before things get back to normal for Judy Sanchez and her three-year-old daughter.

Last Thursday, a team of FBI agents swarmed her apartment building as part of a massive citywide drug and weapons gang raid.

Trouble is, Sanchez lives in apartment 2R.

The suspect they were after is in 2F.

At 6:04 last Thursday morning, just before Sanchez’ alarm was set to go off, she heard a pounding outside her second floor apartment.

“I just happened to glance over and saw this huge chainsaw ripping down the side of my door,” she explains. “And I was freaking out. I didn’t know what was going on.”

Within moments, the chainsaw had cut through most of her door, and someone on the FBI’s arrest team kicked the rest of it in.

“That’s when I heard the clicking of a gun and I heard ‘FBI, get down!’, so I laid right on down.


And they said get your dog, so I got her and at the same time I am laying in her urine because she did pee on herself at the same time.”

That dog is the family’s three-month-old pit bull puppy.

Sanchez says they left her on the floor for 35 minutes, with her daughter screaming for her mommy in the other room.

“I was told not to move, so I didn’t move,” she tells WBZ, out of fear that she’d be shot.

Eventually the feds figured out they were in the wrong spot and they arrested the suspect they were after in the next door apartment.

Sanchez can’t believe that a two-year long federal investigation ended at the wrong door.

“The looks on their faces when they knew they got the wrong door was priceless,” she recalls. “They looked at each other dumbfounded.”

Sanchez says another agent came by later that day to offer an apology, but it was one that Sanchez felt wasn’t quite genuine.

“For me it felt routine apology, it felt like just a regular, ‘I’m sorry for the inconvenience. Here’s the phone number for your landlord to get reimbursed for the door, have a good day.’

And that’s how I felt, like it was a smack in the face.”

 

Was it already legal to use lethal force against non-cops illegally entering your home -- i.e. castle doctrine? If so, did it have some kind of exception for cops?

I can see having a castle doctrine law with no exception for cops, but it's a little weird to pass a law to specify that cops can be killed.

 

And obviously the way to fix this is to permit the mother to fire on a SWAT team with a pistol. That is going to end well.

 

Lol, if only she was allowed to shoot them. All would be right with the world.

 

This may lead to a lot of killing of Police Officers.

 

Actually, I had a similar thought. In that other thread where the cop KO'd that chick, what if she had ducked at the last second and the cop flew over her and then she stood up as he's ontop of her. That's a real possibility if someone jumps you unexpectedly. The cop would have been tossed into the air and smashed the wall. What if he hit his head and died. Is she at fault and arrested for assaulting a police officer? He threw himself at her and was out of control himself.

In cases where cops put themselves in undue risk, citizens should has some reasonable expectation to defend themselves esp if it is evident that you didn't know it was a cop.

But that standard should be EXTREMELY high. You have to prove without a doubt there was no reasonable way for you to know. If a cop breaks in your house at 2am and they don't identify themselves and you shoot right away, then the citizen should be allowed to try and claim self defense in court. But if you shoot the cop 5 minutes later after you had visual contact, hard to claim you didn't know. Problem is, how do you provide conclusive evidence you didn't know?

 

I can tolerate this if they dont do what Florida give deference to self-defense claims.

If you're going to claim self-defense you need to prove it, not be given the benefit of doubt. Also the standard better be incredibly tough because there are a lot of angry idiots with guns who do not like cops.

 

What if it's a typo by a court clerk who isn't on-site to get shot? They can check that warrant 10 ways and still get the wrong door.

Sorry the lady had guns pointed at her and had to lay in dog pee and have a broken door, but mistakes happen, and the right to protect your castle is just about the last thing anybody needs in that particular story.

In fact, unless a cop enters illegally in order to commit another crime (rape, burglary, murder, or whatever), I don't see that you'd ever want citizens to mount a lethal defense. Just get the guy's badge number and file a complaint with the city. Is there some spate of cops terrorizing the people of Indiana with illegal home entries that I'm unaware of?