It's never the wrong time to start a peace process. This part of your post shows that you care less about peace than about tactical considerations: Achieving the best possible outcome from an Arab/Muslim perspective and the worst possible outcome for Israel.
No, it shows that I care about lasting peace from both sides. If all I cared was to get a peace deal done, then I would be in full support of it now. But you are oversimplifying the situation as if peace is a uniform concept. it is not. The peace we are referring to will be the agreement between the state of israel and the proposed state of Palestine - and it can be completely imbalanced depending on a variety of factors. I'm noting that current circumstances ensure that a peace deal would be biased towards Israel simply because they hold far more negotiating power at this stage of history. So when I say that there have been better opportunities in the past and more in the future, it is because I believe that a balanced deal would be the most effective and lasting deal - i.e. one where each side is represented according to their entire population, rather than by the amount of money/weapons pumped into them by intervening countries. Given that such a peace is supported by many, and viciously attacked by politicians on both sides from all spectrums, it is clear to me personally that it is entirely possible and that the politicians are the obstacles. They will write off this type of solution because their interests are conflicted, and because they are the central problem in the Israel-Palestine conflict. At times I even look at the situation and wonder what it would look like if external countries intervened and collaborated in secrecy (and in public) with politicians on both sides, offering them money and weapons and other future favors to achieve a deal that is fantastic for foreign interests. I further wonder how this would look if these people formed national groups inside other nations, whose goal is to "inform" the representatives of the actual people of those countries, effectively bypassing the population. I wonder how that would look. The answer is clear people. We, as humans, are just in denial about our inability to deal with unmonitored power. We are too proud to admit that people in power will almost in all cases abuse their power unless watched like dogs, and there is research to prove it. This is why those people try so hard to convince you that they are a democracy, because the word democracy has become vague enough to encapsulate the circumstances of their borders as well as the basic premise of people participating in their own government. The reality is that, while these people require the most robust democracies man has ever made, they are trying to function with the worst. They know this. This is why Palestinian leaders moved to unite power when the Arab Spring kicked off, because they felt the power of an entire population rumbling and they knew they wouldnt be able to handle it without unity. Think about that for a second. Was there not a good enough reason to unite before then? Their intentions are clear. The common power is politicians, and the common enemy is the people. First I stopped beleiving it was religious. Now I've stopped believing it is even a national issue. I see one key element only now, which is "who wants fair and real peace?" - that is, people who want palestinians and israelis to be treated exactly the same in evert cm of that entire disputed land.
Despite your latest verbose post, it is clear that you are more interested in gaining the upper hand over Israel than you really are interested in peace.
To respond directly to the comment [edit: in post #141], there certainly are times when it's bad to start a peace process, that is logical. For example, if me and you were negotiating peace, we would not start while you are holding a megaphone and slandering me in public. This is logical. I believe you are a consultant, and I am sure that when you present your terms of business, you do not do so while the other party is stealing money from your bank account for example. There are plenty of examples. What you said is, in fact, false and not an opinion at all. Frankly your statement is quite concerning, especially when coupeld with recent disdain or discomfort towards political participation in the Middle East. It made me wonder for a second why you prefer negotiations to proceed now, since you are well aware that the current leaders of palestine have not been legitimately elected into their positions, and that Palestine is not a state yet. Don't you think it would be more appropriate for the Israeli government which is allegedly democratic to engage a democratic state of Palestine? Because they know, some things can't be forgotten, and they will have to deal with their demons if negotiating with a representative Palestinian government. Good luck to peace negotiations. Don't give up on new ideas and making your voice heard.
Well, sort of. However there was no "Israel' prior to 1948, so I guess we could say that it is just a construct also. Who is to say that a "Palestinian" state doesn't have equal validity since it might date back say some time after 1967. I think you would agree with me that the only just solution is the one state solution with full civil rights for all the inhabitants.
A one state solution with full civil rights for all the inhabitants (and those who can prove they immigrated from that area) is the only way to end the conflict between the people IMO. Sometimes people act like Israelis and Palestinians would oppose a safe, secure, fair life. That's not the case at all I think. It is the politicians who convince them that living in a state named Israel/Palestine is a shame, its the politicians and the media who turn the other side into monsters, its the physical and non-physical walls that keep them from getting to know each other. Both sides at present are probably unwilling to live in a state which is called neither Israel or Palestine or some derived word, even if it would respect all. Why? Only because awareness and education is so poor that they believe the recognition of the name of their state by an openly biased United Nations fulfills some religious destiny. I don't blame them. I have lived in countries where you meet people who are truly living in a tiny tiny tiny world with few facts and lots of ideology. I blame those in power because they were put in power and have been shielded with their power. Take a look at the rockets fired into Israel today. What a mess. What is the purpose? Does the world believe that Palestinians want nothing other than to send rockets into Israeli resorts? The leadership can't get it done for the people because they have not been selected by the people and they have not been selected to serve the people. Some people on both sides have killed so much, they don't even notice anymore. How do you engage these people? They are lost causes. consolidated money + power + weapons = lost cause. A one state solution is not close I'm afraid, but yes you're right, it is the only truly peaceful long-term solution.
So Mathloom really wants one state so that the Muslims can soon outnumber the Jews so that they can then treat the Jews as "Dhimmis". http://bbs.clutchfans.net/showpost.php?p=5273011&postcount=84
Yae if its that big of a deal, why don't we just send the Moslems, from saudi palestine or wherever they want to their holyland in Mecca...go there, do what you want ,and stop terrorizing the rest of the world, feel me? I don't get why they ar so violent and full of hatred, then turn around and talk abotu peace? Aren't they the damn aggressors in EVERY situation? ! I don't see how they justify that, doesnt matter
Günter Grass and changing German attitudes towards Israel: http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/apr/05/gunter-grass-german-anger-at-israel
Even in these circumstances, there are positives: Interesting read, but as you are aware..... we will probably need more evidence. Germany as a whole is clearly flying to the right of the political spectrum and that will continue to happen/worsen because the German government is more powerful than it has been for 60-70 years. More power = move to the right, it's textbook, all over the world. Fortunately, this seems to have also caused the other German people to speak up about what they believe and not fall prey to censorship. FYI Günter Wilhelm Grass (born 16 October 1927) is a German novelist, poet, playwright, illustrator, graphic artist, sculptor and recipient of the 1999 Nobel Prize in Literature. He is Germany's most famous living writer.[1]
Your "analysis" is completely wrong and downright r****ded. Right-wing parties have been losing ground and, in contrast to other countries, have not made it into the federal parliament. The conservative party (CDU) has been moving to the left, if anything. You are so clueless that it is laughable. And Grass is a senile, self-righteous, anti-semitic moron who served in the Waffen-SS and kept it a secret for over 60 years. His true colors are showing again now. He is the perfect example of a leftist who hates Israel...that type, interestingly, is not that far from the far right, in many aspects. And it is telling that you quote a passage about "anger against Israel" as a positive. You are a disingenuous, Israel-hating, anti-semitic wannabe Islamist. One more thing about Grass' pamphlet - it's not even a poem, it's just a ridiculously slanted collection of random words, he just ordered it like a Rocket River post and then called it a poem - if that's a "poem", every Rocket River post is one.
Given the politics you support all over the world, your post sounds to me like "you're doing a fantastic job and I wish I could write a poem!"
No, that's not what he's doing. He's fully aware of what he is doing and I wish I could tell people so they could know exactly what kind of vile person he is.
