He still would have seen his hands, knees, etc. This is the only info about Martin's body. We'll get the autopsy report soon enough.
I think at this point it is premature to charge race as a reason for anything. We simply don't know. (Except Martin's racial slur.) We should question why the DA's office would do that, and investigate, but I don't think we can just presume race was the deciding factor.
Was Serino (the lead investigator who wanted to press charges) at the scene of the crime right after the shooting? If he wasn't, it looks like the cops at the scene messed up in properly gathering as much evidence as they can. Then at the station when Serino analyzed the evidence gathered by the cops at the scene and seeing Zimmerman and listening to the 911 tapes figured out that there were inconsistencies.
Trying to understand the perspective of both guys before the fight here, and it sort of makes sense. Zimmerman is the self-appointed watchman and he thinks he knows everyone in the neighborhood. He sees a black guy in a hoodie walking in his hood and thinks the guy is probably a thug. Again, I disagree with his thinking, but I understand. A lot of people would react in thought the same way...to deny that is being naive. From Martin's point-of-view, he sees a guy following him in his car. The guy is not a cop, not security, nor appears to be. Having a flight or fight response (or perhaps here doing both) completely makes sense. I mean, what type of person tails you when you're walking down the street with skittles and iced tea? It completely makes sense to be freaking out because you'd think the guy in the car is a mugger or rapist...it's not like he's in any markings identified as an authority figure. And this is problem I have. I'm trying to see how this can be prevented in the future. There ain't no law against racism nor should there be. Race plays a factor here, but in most cases people let their assumptions of thuggery lead them to avoiding confrontation. And a lot of people in Martin's shoes would still be running and avoid the threat as much as possible. But when you have two guys who give into their fight response, how can we prevent death? If Zimmerman is legally justified in shooting Martin, then wouldn't Martin also be legally justified in shooting Zimmerman, had Martin been packing heat? If I were living in Florida, that's what I'd get out of this case...that I'd have to be packing heat everywhere I walk. I mean, Martin would be justified in thinking that his life was in imminent danger, because well, he died. And if both would get away with shooting each other in this case, then that's a messed up law or this is a messed up case. Something should be illegal here. (Sorry for not reading 120+ pages if theses points have already been made.)
It is appearing more and more that Zimmerman was Overzealous. Following Treyvon is fine but chasing him could be viewed as an aggression. If that's the case I think Zimmerman could be charged with manslaughter. Obviously when you are carrying a gun there is an extra level of responsibility you are expected to exhibit and it appears Zimmermans poor judgement played a major role in creating this situation. I think the Dooley case if nothing else shows everyone that the police will follow "Due Process" with out regard to race. Dooley was not arrested until weeks after the killing. I think all the misinformation in this case has been almost unforgivable and attributed in a major way to to all the civil unrest. The police should have had a press conference correcting some of the inaccuracies that we're enraging the community such as "Zimmerman not being taken in for questioning". I think this case also shines a spot light on the racial intolerance and unforgivable bigotry radiated from well known racists such as Al Sharpton, Jessie Jackson, Spike Lee and The New Black Panthers (no better than the KKK). The second they found out a young Black Man had been killed by someone with a different skin color they have worked tirelessly to make this a race issue, impose illegal bounties, give away what they thought was Zimmermans address and in the process endangering the lives of innocent people. They promoted violence and interrupted the normal flow of due process. If Zimmerman was a black man this would not be a national story and we would not be forced to put up with this irresponsible behavior. Where was the national outcry from Sharpton, Jackson, Lee and the Black Panthers when Dooley was not imeadiately arrested after killing James? Where are they when there is black on black crime? Certainly Spike Lee should be arrested for endangering the lives of innocent people. I beleave I have already read where the leader of the Black Panthers were arrested. To Lee, Sharpton, Jackson, the black panthers and all racists and racist groups including idiots like David Duke and the KKK. This country will be much stronger and a better place to live when you are rotting 6 feet in the ground.
Racial profiling happens amongst people all the time. I'm not defending it, just telling you what I know from my experience. I'm not talking about cops doing it.
Everyone makes stereotypes, it's the way of life. Plus it isn't a crime to stereotype, and there's really no way to prove he was racial profiling. I agree with everything Kim said. It was pretty much unavoidable given the situation. Zimmerman is a paranoid guy with a gun, that has locked in his head that the suspicious black kid was a thug/burglar/posing danger to his community. Martin was probably pretty freaked out too that someone was trailing him late at night with no one around. Both of their fight instinct kicks in, there's bound to be conflict. Even if Zimmerman wasn't armed, one of them was going to be seriously hurt in a fight. But then again this whole thing was like 50% caused by Zimmerman's racial paranoia, even though it was probably hard to prove.
I'm not sure he even realized Treyvon was black at first just from listening to the 911 call. He sure acted as if he were not sure at first in his descriptions. I think Zimmerman was just an Overzealous neighborhood watch guy. If Treyvon had been white, Latino or Asian I beleave Zimmerman would have acted the same. Please don't make this a race issue when it's not. It's only racial profiling if he were only looking for people of a perticular race. There is no evidence of that at all.
When I was in law school I worked for the Innocence Project, and then after law school I worked as an attorney for a short time as a Fed Prosecutor. Later I worked as a defense attorney. I have worked as a civil attorney for most of my career. Concerning Stand Your Ground legislation, ALWAYS assume that you will ultimately have to answer to a jury of your peers. I know that there are times when this is not the case.... but do not count on it.... just be reasonable and if you can retreat, do it..... no one wants to go through a trial.
its okay to stereotype or profile; it's in our human nature to do so. But its not okay to stereotype/profile and then shoot that person lol
This is the most important thing that should come out from this situation is how are things like this prevented. From Zimmerman's side the easiest and safest thing to do is not follow, especially on foot, someone that you think is suspicious. Many people seem to be confusing this with whether you have a right to do that, yes you do but that doesn't mean that is a good idea. This doesn't mean that we should do away with neighborhood watches but that the actual job of close observation and apprehension should be left to the people who are trained to do that, the police. This is a bit of a tangent but this is something that troubles me about laws like Stand Your Ground and the protect third party property law in Texas. The argument put forward about these laws is often about being tough on crime. That people are sick and tired of criminals getting away and good people having to back down or not do anything. What I think a lot of these people miss is that these laws are actually designed for the safety of good people. Just taking this case let's say that Martin was actually a criminal out cases houses. Lets say that Martin is actually armed. Instead of just verbally confronting and/or punching Zimmerman he shoots Zimmerman. At that point Zimmerman is dead because he is overzealous. Let's say that Zimmerman and Martin instead of a fight engage in a shootout that puts many others at risk. Even if the law says you can Stand Your Ground the best strategy is to not put yourself into a potentially dangerous situation and not stay in a potentially dangerous situation. Martin's side is a bit more difficult to determine without more of the information also given that Zimmerman was following Martin and not the other way around. The truth is whether you go looking for trouble or trouble finds you the best thing to do is to avoid it. In Martin's case trying to get away from Zimmerman is the best strategy. The problem though is if Martin just runs does that make ZImmerman more suspicious? I suspect if he had that would be the situation. Last year I attended a seminar about self-defense and rights where they screened a video put out by the NAACP that was geared towards basically teaching young black and latino men how to deal with the police if you get stopped. One of the key points of it was to remain calm, not get aggressive, defensive or appear suspicious by trying to do all you can to get away. That probably would've helped Martin with Zimmerman. Even though Zimmerman isn't a cop in his mind he believes himself to be a position of authority and playing to that might've defused the situation. Before people jump down my throat about racism and profiling let me say I am not saying it is fair that black young men have to go through things like that. I am not denying racism but am talking about practical ways of keeping young black men safe. Since it sounds like angry words were exchanged between the two before things go physical it sounds like both could've exercised more control in the situation. One of the things I teach is verbal de-escalation and if either of them had done that this might not have ended up the way it did. I understand though that is very hard to do when you think you are in the right and the other guy is being a dick. Add on top of that Martin is a teenager and Zimmerman is in the prime of his life and a self-appointed protector of the neighborhood. Two of the hardest things I deal with in teaching self-defense is convincing young women that they can fight while convincing young men not to fight. I can't help but feel that if both Martin and Zimmerman had that attitude this situation would've ended up much differently.
Zimmerman was not a member of a registered Neighborhood Watch group. Zimmerman also violated basic Neighborhood Watch guidelines by carrying a weapon. http://abcnews.go.com/US/trayvon-martin-arrest-now-abc-reveals-crucial-phone/story?id=15959017&page=2#.T3SoF1BWpG4 "Nearly half a million people have signed an online petition on change.org urging law enforcement officials to step in and arrest Zimmerman, who violated major parts of the Neighborhood Watch Manual, which states "It should be emphasized to members that they do not possess police powers. And they shall not carry weapons or pursue vehicles." There are about 22,000 registered watch groups nationwide, and Zimmerman was not part of a registered group, which police were not aware of at the time of Martin's killing, said Chris Tutko, the director of the National Neighborhood Watch program."
I based it on how kim understood it " He sees a black guy in a hoodie walking in his hood and thinks the guy is probably a thug." there is evidence. in the 911 call he said he was black and told the dispatcher they not up to no good and probably said f*n c**n
In April 2011, Zimmerman called the police to report a suspicious black male, “7-9″ years old, “skinny build.” http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/03/23/did-trayvon-shooter-abuse-911.html
Did you actually listen to the 911 call? When he first started giving a description he sounded uncertain of ethnicity. After he said Treyvon was coming towards him did he verify it was a black male. Regardless, there is zero evidence or reason to beleave he would not have acted the exact same way if Treyvon had been Latino, asian or white.
are you sure latinos, asians, or whites NEVER walk around the neighborhood around the same time trayvon or other black persons he has reported in the past was/were spotted?
