Who said his head was bashed on the pavement? His head could have been bashed on the grass/dirt. Really we don't know, it is all speculation. Eventually we will hear about the paramedic treatment and any follow up care. The video is far enough away to not know what physical damage was done to Zimmerman. Will be an interesting case to follow.
Sorry that wasn't me and Chievous's post is the first I heard of a report about where Martin was shot.
The on scene report says that Zimmerman was "bleeding from the nose and back of head." It doesn't outline the extent of his injury. I noted this much earlier but a "bloody nose" isn't the same as a "broken nose." Zimmerman's appearance from the video to me wouldn't contradict the on scene report as the description of just bleeding wouldn't automatically mean very severe wounds. In Judo competitions we frequently deal with competitors bleeding and in most cases they can be cleaned up fairly quickly.
Multiple posters (I'm not going to search through 120+ pages but most likely texxx and gwayneco copy/pasta) on here stated that Zimmerman was "getting his head bashed into the pavement" as part of his self defense claim. Of course, while I wouldn't want my head smacked onto grass or dirt... it's much different than having him smacked onto pavement. I'll wait for the paramedic report though. Just so many holes in what was stated by Zimmerman, police, his friends and especially Zimmerman's dad.
I have to admit I was probably too hard on the Sanford PD initially as it appears at least some were trying to do a more thorough job. There are still many things out there that don't seem clear to me, such as why are witnesses reporting that police "corrected" their testimony, why did it take so long to determine who Martin was and so on. I have left race out of my analysis and I don't know why the DA came to a different conclusion than the lead SPD homicide investigator. Given that from other reports the officer who initially investigated the shooting was a narcotics detective so was the DA basing his decision on that officer rather than the homicide detective who would have more experience with gun shot deaths?
Fair enough and I agree with you. I don't think that it was ever released to the media that his head was bashed on the pavement. I think that it was Gwayneco that said something to the effect, "what if your head was bashed on the pavement". I suspect that there was a struggle, and I suspect that both men may have bruising, cuts, etc. Not surprised that the damage was not more extensive, because one of the parties was shot. A lot of it is going to come down to whether a jury believes that Zimmerman was reasonable to believe that he was in serious emminent physical peril. Good luck getting a non-biased jury. The defense team I am sure will push to have this matter transferred.
My "speculation" as to why the DA acted slowly is that they wanted the matter investigated in more detail. The DA often times builds their case prior to go to a grand jury. I suspect that is the case here. Another possibility is that the DA assistant is not experienced and made a poor decision. Concerning the other claims.... we will know in time, maybe the SPD is/was racist in this case and did lead witnesses. I know that sometimes the police will "correct" your story, or parrot back what you told them in an inacurrate manner to see how confident you are in what you witnesses. I think that this is a case where no one will be happy with the outcome. Also, I do not think you have been unreasonable in your analysis of this case, there just have been some other (on both sides) that have been simply unreasonable, super imposing their own biases into the discussion.
I don't recall saying he was smashed on the pavement, We do know that Zimmerman was bloody at the scene. That's in the police report. So, there was some damage done by Martin.
wasnt trying to say he should die. Was trying to prove a point. If you can substitute anybody in that position, would the outcome have been different in terms of how the police handled it? I think yes.
This is another thing that bothers me What is a person is just a coward? The term 'reasonable' means alot of different things to different people. Rocket River
There were reports this week that he had his head beaten against the concrete. Nothing official from the police as far as I can recall.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-partisan/post/george-zimmermans-crumbling-story-part-2-the-mortician/2012/03/29/gIQAaOwsiS_blog.html "The SPD video ABC News aired last night raised serious doubts about Zimmerman’s account of a life-and-death struggle. Then, Richard Kurtz, the funeral director of the mortuary that received Trayvon’s body, stepped forward last night on MSNBC’s “The Last Word” to knock another huge hole in Zimmerman’s story. The unarmed 17-year-old showed no signs of struggle." According to Zimmerman, Trayvon clocked him in the face and felled him with one punch. Trayvon then jumped on top of him and then repeatedly banged Zimmerman’s head on the sidewalk. That’s what the police told Tracy Martin, Trayvon’s father. But when O’Donnell asked Kurtz if Trayvon’s body showed any signs that would support that version of events, Kurtz said, “I didn’t see anything to support that story.” http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/46887730#46887730 Video linked above if you'd like to hear what Kurtz said. Skip to around the 15 minute mark. "After nearly a minute of being beaten" one would think that George's face would have bruised Martins hands, etc.. That's quoting Zimmerman's father (http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/29/2720704/george-zimmermans-dad-trayvon.html) Why would George's father say that George never followed Martin on foot or by vehicle? This is disproven by the 911 call by George's words alone.(http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/florida/os-trayvon-martin-shooting-zimmerman-letter-20120315,0,3946717.story) Why did George's friend Frank Taaffe state Martin was shot because he wasn’t “honest and truthful” with Zimmerman? Zimmerman isn't a cop... Martin didn't have to say anything to him. To add, this does not line up with any stories stated by Zimmerman or his father. (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/22/trayvon-martin-case-frank_n_1373659.html)
FYI I took a quick look back through the thread and the earliest reference I can find to that Martin was bashing Zimmerman's head on concrete was on page 90. That is based off of an LA Times article which I can't access anymore. I agree but expressing my own opinion based on all of the evidence from beginning to now I am still convinced this was manslaughter. I am curious but since you are a lawyer how much precedent to you think the Dooley James case is to this one? Agree also. In this regard I wish that Obama hadn't commented on this. I can see why he did, he was probably being asked about it and as an issue dominating the airwaves he probably felt he had to. Still we've been able to have trials for cases that have had huge media coverage even in FL, Casey Anthony, so they should be able to find a jury.
To be fair, in the case of a minor break, this can be treated at home. But you would probably still see some bruising of the eyes. If the nose doesn't need to be set and he wasn't dizzy/etc., cleaing it up and packing it seems to be logical. As to the "scrapes" on the back of Zimmerman's head. One would think there would be some immediate discoloration or bruising at least if Martin was banging his head on the ground. More info will come out soon.
Thanks. I appreciate that. For what its worth I've enjoyed reading your post. 've appreciated that you've brought your background knowledge to this. Do you mind if I ask if you are a criminal attorney? As for me I have a personal and professional interest in this which is why I have posted so much. This case could become very important in regard to self-defense law and since a Stand Your Ground bill is being debated in the MN legislature might have direct bearing on what I teach. Because I might have be basing what I teach off of this, or at least answering questions from students about this case, I've tried to get as much info as I can about this and understand it.
