I support pulling out guns in pick up games when you are assaulted, we'll have a much cleaner game afterwards. The question is how does one carry a piece in a pick up game when taking it strong to the hole?
That physical evidence is not relevant to determine if it was justifiable to use deadly force for self defense. You can only use deadly force if you 'stand your ground'. Since we know that Zimmerman did not stand his ground, since he is the one who approached Martin ...it is now immediately inappropriat to use deadly force. Was it okay for Zimmerman to defend himself? Yes. Was it okay for Zimmerman to use deadly force? No. The use of Deadly Force is not allowed if you knowingly put yourself in harms way ...which is what Zimmerman did. Zimmerman still needs to get his day in court, however.
Never said he was not skinny. And once again, there is no exception to a self-defense claim because the aggressor was skinny.
That contradicts other witness testimony that it was Martin and not Zimmerman shouting but I can accept all of that and still show that Zimmerman didn't act out of self-defense. Martin as a right to defend himself from what he considers a threat and according to his girlfriend's testimony he considered Zimmerman a threat. At the same time the use of deadly force has to be considered proportionate. It isn't clear cut that Martin punching Zimmerman is deadly force. This would fit into the scenario that I outlined that Zimmerman panicked after being punched and shot Martin. Martin slamming Zimmerman's head down on the pavement is likely to be considered deadly force but there is a problem regarding the position that Zimmerman and Martin were found. If Martin was in the process of slamming Zimmerman's head down on the concrete when Zimmerman shot him it's unlikely that Zimmerman would be found standing over him as Martin would've been on top of Zimmerman not just standing but kneeling down, or lying on Zimmerman, to be able to slam Zimmerman's head down. As soon as Zimmerman shot him Martin would've fallen on top of him and Zimmerman would've had to extricate himself from him. At the risk of going CSI here if Zimmerman shot Martin while he was slamming his head down. Martin's blood would be all over Zimmerman. The police report noted Zimmerman was bleeding from his nose and back of his head and his back was wet but otherwise no other blood. Finally even if all of that happened there still is the issue of what precipitated the fight. If Zimmerman physically confronts and / or provokes Martin they have essentially both agreed to a fight. Losing a fight isn't grounds for deadly force. That has no direct relevance to the incident. That is possible but given that Martin was trying to move away from Zimmerman when Zimmerman was initially following him and that Martin himself says he is trying to move away. This would mean that Martin actually doubled back to cut Zimmerman off to sucker punch him. That doesn't fit with other testimony.
Yes, but you have to be reasonably afraid for your life to use deadly force. And you still ignore that chasing after somebody first kind of throws self defense out the window.
He put himself in harm's way by leaving his car and following Martin when he had been specifically told "we don't need you to do that" by police personnel.
Actually those are inaccurate statements. Regardless of the degree of medical attention that was needed there is physical evidence to support he was acting in self defense. According to the LA Times there was at least one eyewitness to support Zimmermans story. A person on a phone is not an eyewitness. Certainly what they heard is evidence but it's not the same thing as being an eyewitness. Also according to the LA Times Zimmerman was heading back to his car when Treyvon stepped in front of him and asked Zimmerman "if he had a problem?" when Zimmerman replied no Treyvon responded "you do now" and then Treyvon attacked him. I fully support an investigation but I do not support ignoring due process and arresting Zimmerman because a community is pissed. We have to preserve due process if not for Zimmerman then for you and I. If or when evidence to support Zimmerman committed a crime he should be arrested and put on trial but not before.
The fact that Zimmerman was bigger does not mean that he was not in fear (and by the way I don't think the law requires that one be in fear of one's life). Your categorizing of Zimmerman "chasing" Martin has not been established. Following is not the same as "chasing".
Absolutely. That is exactly why he was advised not to follow Martin. But he put himself in potential danger by going somewhere he was legally entitled to be.
There is evidence that he committed a crime. He should have been arrested. He should have his due process. He should have been arrested and charged, or arrested and released.
It sounds like the only part witnessed by a third party was Martin on top of Zimmerman after the altercation was underway. That Zimmerman was returning to his car and that Martin initiated the fight is only from Zimmerman's account, right? The guy that would rather not be charged for homicide? I don't find the allegation that Martin initiated it to be very likely. Even if he threw the first punch, it'd likely be because he felt that he was in danger from this older and larger person following him and therefore permissible on Stand Your Ground, apparently. That he would choose to confront and attack Zimmerman while Zimmerman was retreating back to his car seems unlikely after talking with his girlfriend about how he was going to walk fast to get away from someone following him. Whatever the case though, the police don't need to prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt to make an arrest. All they need is probable cause. Usually, having a dead body with a bullet hole and a guy with a gun admitting he pulled the trigger is enough probable cause. They can sort the rest out later. Regarding due process, it is the job of the court to interpret law and the job of the jury to evaluate the testimony of witnesses and the value of evidence. The cops are trying to do the job of the court and jury here. They're only supposed to produce a suspect and evidence for a conviction. Most of the time the problem with police is with building a case where there isn't one, making up charges and planting evidence. Here, they're making excuses for their perps.
Like I said the new witness contradicts the other wintesses, and phone records. If Martin is going to attack Zimmerman, he doesn't stay on the phone with his girlfriend to do it. Eitherway there are conflicting stories. I'm happy with not determining Zimmerman is guilty. I'm not OK with the case not going to trial. He followed an unarmed man against instructions from the 911 emergency operator. According to most evidence he approached and initiated contact with Martin.
During the night of the event, the police said that had evidence that supported Zimmerman's self-defense claim, and would have required the police to LIE to claim that they had evidence to arrest Zimmerman.
What evidence do you have that shows that Zimmerman initiated contact with Martin? That is different that pursuing Martin.
FB this is an emotional topic and one that carries racial undertones regardless of if we want it to or not. I respect your passion about this but all I want is for due process to be followed. If the police ignore due process in order to pacify a community then all of us lose. Let due process play out and id enough evidence is gathered charges will be filed and Zimmerman will go on trial. We gain nothing nothing by arresting anyone with out due process, he would just make bail anyway. The investigation is on going with federal involvement. Arresting Zimmerman does nothing to assist the investigation.
I've read every page of this, and haven't seen this evidence. I believe you're making up facts in your head.
