I'm afraid I disagree on the 2008 draft- considering the team's needs at the time, it made sense. Let's not forgot we had a pretty complete team, and trading garbage (Greene) for a top defensive player is an impressive snag. I wonder though, if Morey does it again, knowing now that both T-Mac and Yao would be done at the end of that season, if he still drafts Greene and Dorsey. I think Greene is who sacramento wanted for Artest, and that's why we picked him.
Certainly not. He's made a number of mistakes, all of which have been well-categorized on this board, and all of which would be acknowledged by even the most fervent Morey-ites. But he's still a top-five GM, he's still much better than anyone we're likely to replace him with, and there's still only one reason to believe we'd be better off with someone else at the helm: we'd have a worse record and better draft picks.
The Greene/BJax/1st rounder/cash for Artest trade and the draft pick of Greene are 2 separate things. Maybe Sac did want Greene in the draft or maybe it was just a very smart move on Morey's part to sell ASAP on Greene. Remember we didn't trade Greene until 2 weeks after that huge summer league game he had and that was over a month after the draft. That said Greene was picked by Morey after trading down from Batum and Dorsey was a zero. Greene is at least still in the league, but he is pretty bad. The 2008 draft was bad.
Well said Pugs... Overall I give you an A because your boredom equaled a good read for me... good breakdown sir
I would agree with your analysis if it were more balanced. There is not one single C in that grade analysis. I know for a fact Morey did not hit all A's and B's or the Rockets would not be at the bottom of the playoff ladder possibly out of the playoffs in a few games if the losing continues. You just do not hit all A's and B's and have that happening where there is also no stars or allstars among them.
That's completely false. You're putting the team in an insulating box where if we start at 45 wins and make good moves each year, we should logically get more wins every year than the one before. That ignores everything that happened that wasn't directly GM-controlled, particularly everything that went down with Yao and Tracy. If you add up a series of small positives and those two giant negatives, a net zero or a net negative doesn't make the positives not positive; just means they were offset by "s*** happens". Now, if you want to say "a lot of small good moves hasn't turned crap to gold", then shout it out, you're right. But we started with crap (45-win team with two max players flaming out), not silver (45-win team with healthy superstars).
I dont count Tao and Tracy as Morey moves like others. Both are not his moves. I count what he did or did not do with them in particular too. Since he already had them.
Since he did nothing with Yao and Tmac and the team regressed? Those are also his moves once he had them already and did nothing with them. If they got hurt or not. They already had a injury history when he took over. So include his decisions with those two.
Would you guys trade the Rockets 3 1st round picks (Rox miss playoffs in this scenario) for a top 5 pick? It's a huge risk.
Contrary to what your mother told you, "the process is more important than the result" absolutely does not apply here. Its the NBA. You win or you just go home. I absolutely love Morey, and he gives something for the fans to cheer about on every single occasion, i.e. draft time, trade deadline, or free agency. Whether its pure substance or fluff when it comes to these rumours, hey, at least all of us has something to be hyped about every single occasion, unlike Detroit, or Charlotte, for example, who would almost be invisible if you didn't actively reach out to pay attention to them. But Morey hasn't won anything. His small trades are GREAT, but the bottom line is he hasn't won anything. Don't think its all his fault either. Since Les took over, Les has run this team into the ground with his articulate "constructions" of the team. Only thing I hate about Morey is his Battier-for-Rudy Gay blasphemy he committed. That one is inexcusable. But the rest he has done tremendously well.
Without a 2nd thought and it's not a huge risk. It's riskier taking shots on guys lower in the draft than one shot on a top 5 pick.
Rip, EXACTLY! I get so tired of sifting through the "tank" threads. Unbelivable. It's amazing to me to read this stuff. How everyone thinks we'll automatically end up like OKC if we tank and build through the draft blows me away. There are MANY more teams that have been BAD for years and are still VERY bad and nowhere NEAR close to competing for a title. There's a huge portion of people on this site that would have traded our entire roster for Cousins and Evans. (and Sacramento just signed T-Will to a ten day... what does that tell you about where they're at in regards to competing for a title or even being relevant) It will be interesting to see which team competes for a title faster now, us or the Blazers. Both have been through injuries to their major stars in recent years. The Rockets have refused to do what the Blazers just did - and so had Portland, until it became obvious they weren't going to make the playoffs. So, let's see which team becomes "relevant" faster. Their way, likely going to build through the draft MAINLY, and "our way", which will likely continue trying to go the trade and free agency route. We'll see. I was in the process of making a ridiculously long thread, breaking down champions each year since the Bulls dynasties as well as breaking down the top ten players chosen in the last ten drafts. I stopped and "gave up" 'cause I knew there was no way to convince the "pro-tankers" it was NOT necessarily the guaranteed best way to go. There is definitely no clear cut evidence "tanking" or "being bad" benefits teams greatly in the long run. Anyone who doesn't believe there is a PART of Morey's comments regarding the NBA rewarding teams who are bad and losing is definitely a way of getting better is a bit of "looking out for himself" or "giving himself a bit of an out" is mistaken. It's human nature to do and say things like that when you are in a position such as he's in. As Herm said, you play to win the game. No one cherishes the back to back titles more than I do. While there's no way we win those titles without Dream, there were MANY who wanted to run him out of town - several times, as those in Dallas did with Dirk. Winning a title is a combination of many things. Draft, trades, free agency, coaching, timing, injuries, etc. There are only so many Dreams or Duncans. "Tanking" - unless it is for a CLEAR CUT FRANCHISE CHANGER - and unless you make the decision to do it WELL in advance of the season before that player is available - is NOT a good decision. Not good for anything. The players, the fans, the organization, etc. The odds are 50/50ish you become eligible to compete for a title or you descend into Wizard-land and are unable to get out for five or ten years (or more).
He didnt lose two superstars. He inherited two very injury plagued superstars and held on to them too long (especially Yao). To give him a A he doesnt deserve just shows how detatched clutchfans has been from the rest of the NBA world since Morey took over.
Morey should be judged by viewing his execution of an overall strategy. I would give him a B to B+ for his drafting overall and an A- for his trades (without the T-Will trade I would give him an A+). That does not accurately measure the job he has done with the Rockets. He took over a team that had two superstars, and a supporting cast with some skills, but which was old, slow, and unathletic with a collection of bad contracts. When T-Mac and Yao were hit with major injuries we only had that supporting cast. If I had to guess at Morey's strategy it has several elements: 1. Build a roster of young, athletic players. This provides energy on the active roster, upside for the future, and reduces but certainly doesn't eliminate the chance of losing a key player to a career ending injury. 2.has the advantages of providing us players who if they pan out can help the team for a long time If you look at Morey's trades he has reduced the age of our roster, increased its athleticism and speed, and lowered our overall salary relative to the salary cap. Where we had bad contracts (such as Juwan Howard and Bonzi Wells), we now have no bad contracts. The one thing which would help complete our makeover is a collection of future draft picks. Teams trading star players
Please ignore the prior post. I accidentally hit a key which caused it to post before I finished. Morey should be judged by viewing his execution of an overall strategy. I would give him a B to B+ for his drafting overall and an A- for his trades (without the T-Will trade I would give him an A+). That does not accurately measure the job he has done with the Rockets. He took over a team that had two superstars, and a supporting cast with some skills, but which was old, slow, and unathletic with a collection of bad contracts. When T-Mac and Yao were hit with major injuries we only had that supporting cast. If I had to guess at Morey's strategy it has several elements: 1. Build a roster of young, athletic players. This provides energy on the active roster, upside for the future, and reduces but certainly doesn't eliminate the chance of losing a key player to a career ending injury. 2. Eliminate bad contracts. 3. Limit older players to rotation players in key positions where we don't have a young player with similar talent (ie. Motombo, Miller & Camby). 4. Keep a constant flow of young talent with potential coming into the organization to increase the odds that we will find one with star talent. 5. Maintain a stock of assets for trade. If you look at Morey's trades he has reduced the age of our roster, increased its athleticism and speed, and lowered our overall salary relative to the salary cap. Where we had bad contracts (such as Juwan Howard and Bonzi Wells), we now have no bad contracts. The one thing which would help complete our makeover is a collection of future draft picks. Teams trading star players and lottery picks often value draft picks higher than players. My guess is his year end trades of Battier, Brooks and Hill are the beginning of a trend towards acquiring draft picks which will it easier to trade for lottery picks and star players. Overall I would give Morey a solid A for executing a strategy which has a very reasonable chance at success. Some have been faulting him (Can you say Rocketguy) for overvaluing his players. Often the best trade is the trade not made. I do worry about reports that players don't want to come here because either Morey negotiates too hard, or treats his players as assets. I'm not sure that I would want him to change things, because the salary cap room he has created makes it possible to look to get star quality players, and his trades have improved the team. Count me an enthusiastic Morey supporter.
I don't get people saying he only did OK in the 2011 draft... we have a STARTING ROTATION SF as a rookie from the 38th pick. He's in the top 5 rookies this year. Plus we got D-mo, who's already a valuable trade asset if anything, and with Morris, I still think it was a worthwhile gamble, assuming he effectively plays the 3. They took a chance on Morris, and he could honestly still develop. Only knock is passing on Vuvecic and Faried. But I understand his mentality there. Last years draft was a B+ at worst. in 2010, people are knocking the Ppat pick. Are you serious? This draft was awful. Who would you have taken instead? MAYBE eric bledsoe? when we already had our PG situation fairly locked? No. Absolutely not. Ppat was the right pick. He's struggled this year yes, but he's a fantastic young player who has very good character as well. 2009, how can you knock getting Bud at 44? that's ridiculous. He's already a valuable trade piece at worst. Llull is the best PG in Europe right now. Jermaine Taylor... this wasn't a terrible pick, Taylor did play minutes. I suppose you could say we could've gotten Blair or Thornton, but still, I believe Taylor is still around, somewhere. We even traded him for a pick too. Regardless, he got all 3 in the second round, and all 3 are STILL RELEVANT in the NBA. That's not exactly easy. He has had some misses. Even though Donte Greene sucks, he showed up in the summer league and was a big reason we got Artest (still, batum > artest :/) and we missed Deandre Jordan that year. But Morey has been, IMO, the best drafting GM in the league for the last few years, considering where he's had to pick. Look at the historical data for where you find rotation players in the draft. hint: it's NOT where Morey has been picking.
Well then this is just stupid. You think Morey should have traded Tmac and Yao ming? First of all Yao Ming is untouchable. Les Alexander has investments in China that are not related to Rox. WHat do you think would happen if Yao was traded? What if Alexander had investments with Tinman, and Tinman woke up one day seeing Dream in a Raptors uniform? You think their business negotiations would still go nicely? As far as Tmac was concerned, he was already known throughout the league as damaged goods. People weren't clamoring for Tmac, the return on his contract would not have equaled the production he could give while healthy. With Yao Ming basically untouchable it was more logical to keep both and hope for the best rather than trading one for table scraps. So basically STFU to you, rock4ever and all those idiots who keep saying Morey held on to 1-11 too long. There is no "too long", it was a choice between keep the two have a small chance to win it all, or get rid of one and have no chance of winning at all.
