Nobody is turning on Lowry... The LAL first round pick, no matter what year it is, is about as worthless as they come. They have like 1 losing season in the past 15 years...no thanks.
Ability to sign a max free agent in the summer gives the potential answer to that question. Even if we strike out, at least we made a move to give ourselves a CHANCE at being a genuine contender. No point sticking to the Scola/Martin/Lowry train forever is there?
I think what you said is right. That part is the most important. A new direction or stuck at 500. Have to choose something or risk being 500 for as long as Martin, Scola, and Lowry are in their primes.
I agree with you and like THIS trade the most for the Rockets, but I dont see why the T-Wolves give up Pekovic + Beasley for just K. Martin and J.Hill in return....especially now that Rubio appears to likely be out with injury. I'm sure we would have to give up Dalembert or PPat WITH Martin for them to consider it. Pekovic / Dalembert / Smith Gasol / Patterson / (Morris) Beasley / Parsons / CBud / Morris Lee / TWill Dragic / Flynn / Goudelock = a servicable starting lineup. We would still have to make another move IMO.
Yeah I just found out how had that injury was Rubio.... No way they move Ridnour now so my trades are no good as I posted them. As for my K-Mart trades... I'm assuming Minnesota is still emanated with K Mart like they were last year. They may want him more than ever since Ridnour would have to run point with JJ and Rubio out.... To HollaifyaHEMI: The LAL 2014 1st round will be a decent pick, 16-22 at worst, LA is headed towards a massive crossroads. They NEED to move Pau financially. Keeping Bynum and Kobe alone is going to cost them $45 mil... If Fisher doesn't retire, that's another $4 mil... Add Walton and MTW and even without Gasol's $20 mil they are over the cap paying the extra high new tax that they do not want to pay. LAL's roster is going to be really cash strapped, don't expect a major FA signing.... This is a new Lakers era of frugal ownership. I can see them fighting for a playoff spot next year without Gasol... I'd be willing to take that risk.
Perhaps the window of opportunity just swung open for the Rockets due to the injury to Rubio which is being reported as a possible MCL. This would create a point guard crisis for team threatening to make the playoffs for the first time since KG left. Isn't just possible that they might now listen to a deal not only for a 2guard like Martin but also possibly now Lowry at the point. The ask could be for Pek in return or possibly Derrick Williams or Beasely or who knows, bit of longshot - offer to take a chance on the injured future of Rubio.
I forgot to add that we would give Minnesota back their 2012 draft pick. So after this injury.... Martin / Hill / Blake / LAL 2nd / Minn 2nd via HOU to MINN Gasol / Beasley / Pekovic / LAL 1st to HOU Lowry / Scola / Budinger to LAL (Matthews probably has to be moved to another team for cash) LAL gives up a hell of a lot to get their star PG but currently he is the only star PG they can afford and they get cap relief (Scola/Lowry is cheaper than Gasol/Blake). Bynum/Scola/Kobe/Lowry = LA's last run with Kobe and they gotta pay to make that happen. I still say LA has to make a move before next season so if Morey waits them out I think they'd rather have Lowry than Sessions or Calderon, cap relief + Scola is worth two draft picks potentially.
i didnt sleep well because of those rumors, juste before i go to bed i saw the "gasol apparently gone" thread and this morning when i woke up i ran to my computer ... and nothing new, grrrrr ^^ hope something happen quick ...please
http://www.cbssports.com/nba/blog/eye-on-basketball/17693152/nba-trade-deadline-rockets-wont-trade-kyle-lowry-in-deal-for-pau-gasol If Morey gives in and decides to trade Lowry for a guy like Gasol, we will be the laughing stock of the NBA!
If we're trading Lowry, it better be for a Dwight rental. The only thing u want is for us to have a chance to acquire a superstar and perhaps he signs an extension and draws another superstar. Worst case scenario, he bolts in the offseason and we start from scratch. Tired of mediocrity. Time to make major changes.
But konver5ation, Remember the Lakers were going to acquire Chris Paul for Odom and Gasol who's combined salaries were roughly $28M. But they were going to have to turnaround and sign Paul for a max deal of $19M anyway. Point is they were completely prepared and willing to do that and even pulled the trigger on it, so the conjecture around fear of the Luxury Tax is all overblown. It's just not their major concern. Just like Morey has a plan for the future of the Rockets, it only makes sense that the most successful franchise in sports (except for maybe the Yankees) have a future plan as well. The Odom trade netted them a $9M TPE that they can use or eat at their discretion which gets them halfway to the initial Luxury Tax cutoff which is at $70M and as I understand it is grandfathered in following the 2013-2014 season - which gives them another year. They obviously would love to recapture another chunk from a Gasol deal if they could do that now or after the regular season but as I attempted to point out earlier, they already showed their hand with the Chris Paul trade in the sense that they aren't preoccupied with the Luxury Tax when they demonstrated that they were willing to take on a Max contract player like Paul in December. They have 2 first round picks and 3 second round picks this year and next (actually 3 first round picks but one they can't trade) which they can use if they like, as an incentive to dump a number of bad contracts with the teams that will have an excess of cap room to play with over the next two years (of which there are probably 20 teams). So if they want to lose the Walton contract or the Artest contract or the Fisher contract etc, they're all short enough in duration that teams with an excess in cap would be happy to carry them with a draft pick sweetener. The big issue is Kobe and sooner or later you have to deal with the fact that he's going to be a $30M a year load in two years. I have to believe he's going to restructure his deal or price himself out of the league. I can't see any franchise spending half of their salary base on one player. On top of everything else, the Lakers have just signed a huge multi-billion dollar cable television deal that would net the franchise enough money to make the Luxury Tax look like a rounding error. Very few franchises in the league has that distinctive advantage. The Maloofs in Sacramento are looking for quarters under the couch cushions for example. The financial thing would probably be a huge problem for most franchises but it's hardly an apocalyptic event for the Lakers. Now that they know what the new rules are for the CBA it will take them a couple of years to right the ship, put the house in proper order. As for Kyle Lowry, more than anything else they want a star potential player that gives their new coach a chance to implement the system he believes in instead of jackson's triangle. Right now the Lakers are playing with two centers on the floor and no point guard. Forget about the depth, the starting line-up doesn't fit Mike Brown's system and if he's your coach you need to change that. That's already less than what they were looking for in Chris Paul by a pretty large margin. Dragic is a nice player but he's a career backup point guard and he's also an expiring contract. Hardly the centerpiece of a trade involving your second best player who has led your team to two NBA championships. However this turns out, I think Pau will make a nice player for the Rockets and bring some additional talent and improvement to the Houston franchise in years to come. Pau is a center, not a power forward. He can slide over and give adequate minutes there but he's a center and that's where he can really help the Rockets. If the Lakers don't get Lowry in part, in return for him, then they're getting fleeced by Morey and the Rockets. Not trying to offend anyone by presenting that perspective.
The Lakers don't have a plan anymore CDave. We've heard from multiple reputable sources that their front office is in disarray and they don't know what the hell they want to do. If Bynum doesn't stay healthy they are straight-up f***ed after a couple more years when Kobe becomes more of a burden than a help (or retires).
Had they managed to pull off the Chris Paul trade without the unprecedented intervention of the commissioner, nobody in the media or the competitive franchises, or fan bases, or any other reputable source, would have bothered trying to advance the notion that the Laker franchise had lost their way or had no clear plan for their future. On the contrary they would have been lauded for their boldness and foresight. No guts no glory. 2 GM's in nearly 40 years, one family owning the franchise for nearly 50 years says there is plenty of stability remaining in the FO.
I don't understand where we disagree other than whether the Lakers are going to be frugal or not and I'll respond to that later.... I personally don't think they will trade Pau without getting a player they can keep on the books in their starting lineup, so if it isn't an all star like CP3 then it needs to be a cheap starter like Lowry. Dragic doesn't get the deal done unless LA is more desperate than what I thought and even still I think they could get Sessions for a lot less or Calderon in Toronto. Where we do disagree is how you are using the CP3 trade as justification that the Lakers front office is ok with going into the luxury tax. That argument has no basis because I couldn't think of many owners who wouldn't go in the luxury tax to bring the best player at the most important position in this generation of the NBA (PG) to team with the greatest player in the league (Kobe) and one of the 5 dominant big men in the NBA (Bynum). That situation was so spectacularly unique that it can't be used as a guide for much other than LA would trade Pau and pay into the luxury tax to put CP3 alongside Kobe and Bynum. Frankly, who the hell wouldn't? If Dwight Howard and Deron Williams called Les and said "We want to come to Houston but we want you to keep K Martin." I'm sure we will pay into the luxury tax but that doesn't mean we'd trade for Antawn Jamison. There aren't many players like CP3 that come available and he fit the biggest need LA had. Exception to the rule.... not the rule! Are they willing to pay into the harsher luxury tax to keep Pau Gasol is the question. I guarantee you they don't WANT to. If they can't get value, then they can't get value, and they're stuck like a lot of teams are (including us) with a player they can't reasonably move but would rather not pay. Buss Jr. has been treating the franchise like a business lately more than a pursuit of championship greatness. Your allusion to the Yankees is frankly ridiculous considering how much more profitable they are than any NBA team will ever be and they don't have a hard salary cap. The Yankees are in the top 5 most valuable sports franchises whereas the Lakers are in and out of the top 50 year to year. Steinbrenner considers the whole of the Lakers revenue a rounding error on A-Rod's contract! :grin: For over a generation they have been building that Yankee brand in a league that supported it, condoned it, and welcomed it. LA wants Hollywood star players but the league isn't as conducive towards those big names signing big contracts as MLB is or as the NBA was just 3 years ago.... you can't bury your head in the sand and think that David Stern vetoing the CP3 trade and pushing for a harder salary cap doesn't have an effect on the Lakers' future. FYI: Kobe is a league leader in scoring and 5 time NBA champion.... he isn't going to restructure a damn thing lol. In response to your trade exception point.. come on bro. Seriously? No trade exception is worth losing your main 9and arguably only unique) advantage in having 3 7-footers on your roster. Look at LA's team, why do they need trade exceptions when they can send over any combo of Fisher/Odom/Walton/MWP to equal $5, $10, $15, to $20 mil in matching salaries? Why would they need a trade exception when Odom's contract can make salaries match, plus most teams would want him coming off their bench as the reigning 6th man of the year. They traded him as a master plan to get a trade exception so they can break the bank on who? The writing is on the wall.... LA is about to be frugal if the name isn't Dwight Howard, CP3, etc. The writing is on the wall... and if the CP3 trade is the only evidence that you have that LA is willing to throw money at their roster problems then I think you're misreading LA and you misread their pursuit of CP3. I'm more cynical than you are because I think getting CP3 would have been the easiest way to get rid of Kobe with the excuse of needing to extend both Bynum and CP3 in 2013 = new LA era (plus the draft picks for the Kobe Bryant trade to GSW haha). In summation, LA is desperate and doesn't want to pay Pau so he can be had for Lowry if LA is willing to give up some draft picks. I'm not going to respond to you saying Dragic is a career backup. That's laughable man, every non-lottery pick is a "career backup" until they get their shot to start. Even Evan Turner was technically a "career backup" until last week. Kyle Lowry was a "career backup" until last year. That means nothing. Either say he can't do X or I don't know what to respond to because Dragic preforms well on both ends of the court and I have zero reason to believe he isn't in good enough condition to handle 35 mpg for the remainder of the season.
The quiet before this deadline is deafening. I dont see any of this going down. Apparently it takes Lowry to get Gasol. Gasol does not want to play anywhere else and the Lakers are playing bad with him in the lineup lately. Rockets have no plans B and C from the strong nothingness being heard right now. I think this deadline could be uneventful again.
If they had pulled off that trade they still would have problems of a roster built for 3 years ago but having the best PG in the league is one of the very few ways to mask a terrible roster. CP3 was a short term fix to a long term salary problem, but having CP3 means you can blow up without actually blowing up.... aka trade/dump everyone not named CP3/Kobe/Bynum and you have a playoff team with draft picks and cheap FAs filling out your roster as a transition to the CP3/Bynum era without Kobe. CP3 was one of the few trades they could have made that was good long term and short term for them because they gave up $20 mil Pau and got their future partner for Bynum. I don't know many other trades where that's the case so that's why I think Morey can hold out since Lowry's contract is one of the few they can afford, it should be Pau + multiple draft picks if they want to get Lowry. We are taking $20 mil off their books and saving them millions by giving them the most reasonably priced veteran PG with a PER over 15 I can find in the league (someone correct me if I'm wrong).
I like Gasol but I don't see a point of bringing in someone like him at this point....don't get the strategy Morey has in play.
So where were all those owners in December who would have had no fear of a future luxury tax burden when it offered up the prospect of acquiring the best PG in the league? I think we both know there are a whole set of reasons why lots of teams aren't successful or don't even bother going after the elite players in the sport. I'm saying if the Lakers weren't going to let themselves become preoccupied with the luxury tax implications when they opened for business in December, it's pretty clear they aren't going to be guided by that now. If they could trade Pau Gasol tomorrow for Darin Williams, arguably not the player that Chris Paul is but nonetheless a Max salary earner, can you imagine they wouldn't approach that deal just because he's not the best point guard in the sport and therefore they'd suddenly become conflicted over the disadvantages of the luxury tax? Or for that matter with Rondo or Derrick Rose? Really? That's what you're saying, isn't it? There's some sort of Mendoza line that gets broached and then the FO shifts into this frugal mindset of guarding against taking on additional expense? Well where exactly is the cutoff is that you've convinced yourself exists that operates as the barrier for taking less in trade for Gasol out of a preoccupation for the luxury tax? Does it kick after the 5th best point guard or what? This to me is preposterous nonsense. And moreover the Laker franchise has never operated from that kind of defensive positioning you're describing so I can't imagine why after all these years dealing with all the changes surrounding the sport, they would suddenly shift their philosophy now. The Pau thing just like the Lamar thing is a simple proposition of buying low and selling high. Look, the Lakers got their doors blown off in 4 straight by the Mavs in the second round last year. Up until then this group of players had taken the team to the finals 3 consecutive years in a row. You don't break-up a team (or a coaching staff) or anything else associated with the organization in the midst of that kind of a streak unless your an imbecile. That doesn't mean there weren't signs of things that desperately needed attention or improvement, but timing matters of course. Trading a 32 year old soon to be 33 year old Lamar Odom at the apex of his career when he will never, ever have another season to match last year's season again, a season which resulted in the team being eliminated in the second round of the playoffs despite his extraordinary contribution, is a sound decision because his present value in December was high. Any fool can see that Dallas overpaid based on what they've gotten in return. Similarly the Lakers have reached a similar place with Gasol, although having less to do with his longevity and more to do with his overall fit. The priority is for a point guard not a second center any longer as that is the position Bynum occupies. So the timing of moving Gasol for the right player or players in exchange is a prudent thing to do first and foremost from a player personnel standpoint, not or purposes of a garage sale. Jimmy Buss butted heads with Phil Jackson over a lot of things during Jackson's tenure but he never forcibly insisted on a different path. When Phil departed, Jimmy is anxious to take the organization in a different direction. There have been some very one sided reports about the sweeping changes from people who frankly had gained a lot of privileged access from the prior regime. When Mitch Kupchak decides to take his leave I'll become more concerned. So far I'm inclined to think that Jimmy and Mitch have together for a long time and this deosn't represent anything all that new. The only reason for reference to the Yankees was to illustrate long standing success and dominance in the sport. Not to portray an apples to apples comparison between the Lakers financial situation and the Yankees. Obviously that would be absurd considering the enormous differences between MLB and the NBA. On the other hand it is not at all a reach to suggest that within the context of the NBA, the Lakers enjoy a similar financial status as do the Yankees in the sport of baseball even if the dollars are not even approximately the same. Worst case the CBA restructuring around cap could mean that the franchise may not seriously compete for championships for 2-5 seasons. Considering the team won 5 titles just last decade that's by no means catastrophe and something the fan base can find a way to live with if they have to. On the other hand they have a 24 year old all star center which I contend is the toughest position in the league to fill. if they're successful in pairing him with an all star point guard o similar age this year (like Lowry) then together with Kobe for the next several seasons gives the team a chance to compete for titles. As far Kobe's longevity, I certainly see the potential of him not budging on the salary side, but he's also totally preoccupied with his legacy, wants not only that career scoring record but also wants to compete for NBA titles every year and knows that the cap will seriously constrain the team from bringing in additional talent to keep them competitive. I give it 50 / 50 that he adjusts and if not that's the reason for keeping the amnesty clause around. I already addressed the buy low sell high mindset of the FO regarding Lamar Odom and it doesn't need to be defended because the results of the deal are obvious. Odom has fallen apart this season and barely able to remain on the Maverick roster. So attempting to advance an argument that somehow the Lakers were motivated by the savings rather than the degradation of player performance contribution is absurd. Obviously the Lakers made the right choice in deciding that Odom's best days were behind him and that they should try and get as much compensation as possible for him. It isn't even arguable based in the results. Wake up! it's Dallas who got fleeced! The CP3 trade is the only evidence either of us have to prove our points. I contend that the Lakers are going to lead with making sound player personnel decisions because that's how they operate. They traded Lamar Odom after 8 seasons because they knew he was hopelessly out of shape attending to his TV Kardashian lifestyle and he wasn't going to be able to perform anymore. They traded to Cuban sight unseen no doubt because if the Mavs had seen how flabby Lamar had become in the off season they never would've sunk a first round pick and a $9M TPE in him. The only part that has made moving Gasol desperate is the foiled trade attempt in December which has let the cat out of the bag and obviously it's affected Gasol the same way it has affected Kevin Martin. On that basis there is certain desire on the part of the FO to get it over with but no gigantic urgency as there are other stop gap alternatives to improving the teams chances with other smaller changes by next week and then potentially dealing Pau in the offseason. That said, I think they might give up some draft picks but I also think they might like to have another player or two to help them out with their depth woes. I don't know why this got your hackles up. All I meant was that it was silly to assume that a blockbuster trade involving a 4 time all-star and two time NBA champion, former NBA Rookie of the Year cosidered amongst the top 10 or so Big men in the game, would have as it's centerpiece offering from the other team a reserve point guard who hasn't managed to win the starting job in two separate organizations. Top that off he's on an expiring contract.
